# Things done to products to meet public expectations **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089 "2011-06-02T15:34:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/161 "2011-06-10T17:43:30Z")
> [@Scarlett67](#): > > Christmas trees are painted to give them a nice green color before harvest. Why would it be necessary to paint Christmas trees green? They don’t ripen like tomatoes – they’re always green. That’s why they’re called _evergreens_. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/162 "2011-06-10T17:46:25Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Why would it be necessary to paint Christmas trees green? They don’t ripen like tomatoes – they’re always green. That’s why they’re called _evergreens_. He’s talking about cut trees. Which are only green until they dry out and turn brown. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/163 "2011-06-10T17:58:15Z")
So when he said “before harvest”, he actually meant “after harvest”. 🙂 Always cut my own tree, so never been an issue. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/164 "2011-06-10T18:07:03Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > So when he said “before harvest”, he actually meant “after harvest”. 🙂 > > Always cut my own tree, so never been an issue. No, they paint them before harvest (when it’s easy to get around them with a sprayer) so they stay green after harvest. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/165 "2011-06-10T18:14:20Z")
> [@Lestrade](#): > > Do you have maraschino cherries in foreign parts? In Germany, yes, they are called Cocktail cherries, because that’s where they usually end up in; also for sweets. Sometimes they turn up in the bad canned fruit salad\*. - where a lot of sugar water is added to make it taste sweet, as opposed to fruits simply sliced and put into a tin with a little bit of water to conserve the vitamins and keep the calories low. I find they taste awfully artificially sweet. But what is your problem with them - that they are first pickled, loosing their colour in the process, and then coloured again? In that case, the whole food industry uses colouring and artificial taste because people have been conditioned to like that. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/166 "2011-06-10T19:26:28Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > No, they paint them before harvest (when it’s easy to get around them with a sprayer) so they stay green after harvest. Ah. :smack: that does make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Lestrade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Lestrade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lestrade)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/167 "2011-06-10T19:38:05Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > In Germany, yes, they are called Cocktail cherries, because that’s where they usually end up in; also for sweets. Sometimes they turn up in the bad canned fruit salad\*. > > - where a lot of sugar water is added to make it taste sweet, as opposed to fruits simply sliced and put into a tin with a little bit of water to conserve the vitamins and keep the calories low. I find they taste awfully artificially sweet. > > But what is your problem with them - that they are first pickled, loosing their colour in the process, and then coloured again? In that case, the whole food industry uses colouring and artificial taste because people have been conditioned to like that. I don’t have a problem with them. They’re another example of an item dyed to match consumer expectations. I was surprised to learn that they’re naturally green. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/168 "2011-06-10T23:38:22Z")
> [@captnkurt](#): > > I get the still photo “camera noise” as a potential way to discourage certain pervy elements from snapping pics in locations they oughtn’t (dressing rooms, toilets, upskirt, etc). I’m not saying I buy the whole “so that’s why every cell camera has to make that noise now, because they made a law!” argument, as it feels very urban lengendy, but let’s grant that for now. > > How the heck would you use some sort of sound with a video cam to defeat this kind of nefarious activity? Have it make some sort of beep or ping or whatever when you start recording? Okay, fine. Then Skeevy McUpskirt starts recording somewhere in private, and then walks to wherever he wants to record. > > Surely you don’t want the camera to emit a constant “Warning! This camera is now recording!” … Warning! This camera is now recording!"… No. I don’t know if you’ve mixed my argument up with someone else, or if I’ve made myself unclear. So: I’m with you. I think the “camera sound = anti-upskirt” idea is probably an urban legend - otherwise it wouldn’t be so easy to turn the noise off. I just cited cellphone video as another counterexample - if the still camera noise really was legislated (or adopted by manufacturers) for privacy then surely we’d see some kind of moronic equivalent for cellphone video as well. The link from Autolycus aside (it’s nearly 10 years old), I haven’t seen anything to suggest the camera click-whir noise is anything other than positive audio feedback for the user. Just like the thread title says. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/169 "2011-06-11T01:21:05Z")
> [@Lestrade](#): > > How about [maraschino cherries](http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maraschino_cherry)? The Wiki article has their history in the US, but they can’t be a purely US thing, can they? > > Do you have maraschino cherries in foreign parts? [Here’s a better link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maraschino_cherry). ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/170 "2011-06-11T03:55:27Z")
OK well I guess it’s possible to turn off the cell phone camera noise in the states, but here in Japan AFAIK it’s not, and the reason is because of pervy cell-phone users. Sorry for the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/171 "2011-06-11T06:03:59Z")
I agree phones now allow you to silence the camera, but I think it’s because people aren’t as worried as when they first came out. Pretty sure the first phones could not be silenced. Try Nokia 7250 or Sony Ericssion T610. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/172 "2011-06-11T07:43:23Z")
What areas do they dye Christmas trees? Oregon has all kinds of Christmas tree farms and we never dye or paint them here. Even when I lived in other states they always came au naturel. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/173 "2011-06-11T16:46:49Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Does the FDA allow that? If you add anything here, under German / European laws you would have to label it. Besides, the colour of flour depends on the grade with which it was ground, and how much of the fiber was sifted out. Customers know that[type](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour#Flour_type_numbers) 1000 is darker than 450 because it has more fiber stuff. > > If customers wanted blazing unnatural white, the flour could be bleached with oxygen or similar, but I have not heard this. Here in the United States, “standard” white flour is indeed bleached. Sitting next to the containers of regular (that is, bleached) white flour you’ll find containers labled “unbleached”, and also “whole wheat” flour which just means whole grain flour that includes the bran and germ. Bleached flour looks every so slightly more white than unbleached flour. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/174 "2011-06-12T14:38:42Z")
> [@EvilTOJ](#): > > What areas do they dye Christmas trees? Oregon has all kinds of Christmas tree farms and we never dye or paint them here. Even when I lived in other states they always came au naturel. I’ve seen them dyed in both SoCal & Missouri. It’s intended to be subtle enough that you have to look hard to notice it. They’re doing two things: taking any which are a little under-green & greening them up for better saleability. And #2:, extending their shelf life. If you have a cut tree which is still green after 10-ish days, that’s because of the dye, not because of some miracle of bio-engineering. Trees in lots are a often few days old before they get bought. Absent dye they’d last just a few days after that before looking wilty & going brown or at least green-apple green on the way to tan then brown. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/175 "2011-06-12T21:41:11Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > I didn’t notice if this was mentioned, but bleaching paper products because white imparts ‘cleanliness’ to consumers. I still think its dumb that toilet paper and coffee filters\* aren’t left brown, the same way commercial paper towels are. Why bother introducing an environmentally hazardous chemical to an already nasty process for nothing more than consumer perception? > \*Long before we started using a reusable metal coffee filter, we switched to unbleached filters in one of our first efforts to adopt a greener lifestyle. No good cite, but I’ve read that unbleached filters can have some issues themselves. Some articles on coffee sites I’ve read suggest they release more chemicals into the coffee. And they definitely can add a papery taste, although this is minimized if you rinse them first. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/176 "2011-06-12T21:46:50Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > But they were already getting feedback. The screen shows everything they would need to know. All the fake sound does is go in time to the inspiration and expiration, so in effect it tells them that the machine was on, and if they pay enough attention, what the breath rate is. > > Or…they could just look at the number on the screen under where it says “breath rate.” The fake sound didn’t give any additional information that wasn’t already available, and would actually require more effort to gain what information it does give, and with less reliability. > > In the old days when machines didn’t have built in sensors, yes, looking at and hearing the bellows was an important way for the doctor to know that gas was still being delivered to the patient, but the machines now monitor themselves and if it breaks, it will let you know. And the older doctors were the ones more likely to complain about the lack of noises. There do exist plenty of versions without the fake sounds, especially in Europe, and they’re doing just fine over there. However, listening to sounds and looking at a monitor are different inputs - you can listen to the sound while looking at the patient himself, in case the direct observation tells you additional things that the machine doesn’t pick up; if you have only visual signals, you have to switch between looking at the patient and looking at the screen. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/177 "2011-06-12T21:50:58Z")
> [@typoink](#): > > No good cite, but I’ve read that unbleached filters can have some issues themselves. Some articles on coffee sites I’ve read suggest they release more chemicals into the coffee. That sounds … strange to me. It’s bleaching which is an extra production step, and, unless specified on the package (bleached without chlorine/ with oxygen), most bleaching of paper is done with chlorine from my knowledge, so the bleached filters would be more likely to release chemicals than the unbleached. > [@](#): > > And they definitely can add a papery taste, although this is minimized if you rinse them first. You must be buying a crappy brand - I know coffee drinkers, and have never heard this. Hard water makes the coffee taste less good, that can be tasted (or rather, soft water makes the flavour and taste richer noticeably), but filters imparting a taste? What brand? ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/178 "2011-06-13T00:03:41Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > That sounds … strange to me. It’s bleaching which is an extra production step, and, unless specified on the package (bleached without chlorine/ with oxygen), most bleaching of paper is done with chlorine from my knowledge, so the bleached filters would be more likely to release chemicals than the unbleached. > > You must be buying a crappy brand - I know coffee drinkers, and have never heard this. Hard water makes the coffee taste less good, that can be tasted (or rather, soft water makes the flavour and taste richer noticeably), but filters imparting a taste? What brand? As to the former, the claim (seemed to be) that the bleaching process removed some (natural?) compounds found in the paper. So potentially a little bit of bleaching agent may be outweighed by a larger bit of existing compounds. No judgment on veracity, but it doesn’t sound impossible. I’ve used multiple brands of unbleached filters. I’ve noticed a subtle flavor that reminds me of a brown paper bag. I currently use unbleached Chemex filters, and I rinse them before use. While rinsing them, I very definitely SMELL that brown paper bag odor and have no trouble believing it could impart flavor on a liquid passed through it. That said, since I started prerinsing, I’ve yet to notice any unpleasant flavor. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/179 "2011-06-13T00:38:18Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’ve seen them dyed in both SoCal & Missouri. > > It’s intended to be subtle enough that you have to look hard to notice it. They’re doing two things: taking any which are a little under-green & greening them up for better saleability. And #2:, extending their shelf life. > > If you have a cut tree which is still green after 10-ish days, that’s because of the dye, not because of some miracle of bio-engineering. Trees in lots are a often few days old before they get bought. Absent dye they’d last just a few days after that before looking wilty & going brown or at least green-apple green on the way to tan then brown. Oregon is the number one producer of Christmas trees in the nation and none of them are dyed. The fir species grown here hold thier color and needles for a long time and are shipped all over the country. I had a Nordland fir last year that was still green and holding it’s needles for several months after I threw it on the burn pile. And I cut it myself so I am sure nobody added any dye to it, Scots pine is mentioned as one species that is dyed in other parts of the country, but it isn’t grown here. 10 days is all the tree will last? God I feel sorry for people in areas that have to put up with such poor quality. It is really painting with way too broad a brush to say that all Christmas trees are dyed. Only the crappy Scots is. > [@](#): > > Some species of pine, such as the Scots Pine, are susceptible to dormant season “yellowing”, which is generally countered with a green dye or paint. > **[Christmas tree cultivation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree_cultivation)** > > Christmas tree cultivation is an agricultural, forestry, and horticultural occupation which involves growing pine, spruce, and fir trees specifically for use as Christmas trees. > The first Christmas tree farm was established in 1901, but most consumers continued to obtain their trees from forests until the 1930s and 1940s. Christmas tree farming was once seen only as a viable alternative for low-quality farmland, but that perception has changed within the agriculture industry. For optimum yield a... ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089/180 "2011-06-13T01:18:26Z")
> [@typoink](#): > > I’ve used multiple brands of unbleached filters. I’ve noticed a subtle flavor that reminds me of a brown paper bag. > > I currently use unbleached Chemex filters, and I rinse them before use. While rinsing them, I very definitely SMELL that brown paper bag odor and have no trouble believing it could impart flavor on a liquid passed through it. That said, since I started prerinsing, I’ve yet to notice any unpleasant flavor. I’ve never heard of chemicals from unbleached filters leaching into coffee, nor have I ever tasted the filter in the coffee. But do yourself a favor and get a permanent metal filter and ditch the paper ones. You’ll end up with much more flavorful coffee since the aromatic oils won’t be absorbed by paper. It’s more economical and less consumptive of environmental resources. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-done-to-products-to-meet-public-expectations/584089.md?page=10)