# Things heating up in the Middle East **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 25, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019 "2006-07-25T23:05:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/21 "2006-07-26T03:28:28Z")
> [@diggleblop](#): > > Oh, most definitely, it would be all out devastation. It would turn half the continent into a sheet of glass. Let’s just hope that doesn’t happen, my God. Terrible. I just wish they would all just calm down over there. Ummm…how do you get to there, when your entry into the thread was: > [@](#): > > Someone is going to hand Israel their ass if they don’t stop. [singingJCS] _It doesn’t help us if you’re inconsistent_ [/singingJCS] ---
**Author:** ![diggleblop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/22 "2006-07-26T03:31:29Z")
How is saying that “someone is going to hand them their ass _if they don’t stop_” not consistent with “but I hope they don’t hand them their ass” ? If I witness someone trash talking some big guy in a bar, I can’t say, “that guy is going to mess you up if you don’t stop trash talking, although I hope he doesn’t” ? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/23 "2006-07-26T03:42:11Z")
> [@diggleblop](#): > > How is saying that “someone is going to hand them their ass _if they don’t stop_” not consistent with “but I hope they don’t hand them their ass” ? > > If I witness someone trash talking some big guy in a bar, I can’t say, “that guy is going to mess you up if you don’t stop trash talking, although I hope he doesn’t” ? That ain’t what you said. Your first post implied Israel would get pummeled. The later one says both sides get TKO’d. Not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/24 "2006-07-26T03:48:00Z")
> [@diggleblop](#): > > One part of me I thinks Annan should let any investigations finish before saying that. And the other part says that every other missle strike from Israel has been near precision, why would this one be any different? Don’t know much about the fog of war and/or failure rates of munitions, do ya? The US hit the French Embassy during the Libya Raid years ago. Seems like we also hit a Chinese Embassy by accident in a more recent military adventure. We only admitted the F-117 existed after we used it in Panama, and one of them missed the target. In Desert Storm, one of our A-10s rolled in on British tanks and lit em up. We lead the world in precision weapons, and we still have weapons that fail for various reasons. Sometimes the guidance package goes wonky, sometimes the weapon itself malfuntions, either losing the target lock or having other problems. Sometimes human error enters the picture. Shit happens. ---
**Author:** ![diggleblop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/25 "2006-07-26T04:44:53Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > That ain’t what you said. Your first post implied Israel would get pummeled. The later one says both sides get TKO’d. Not the same thing. Nope, I said what I meant. I think you’re looking into it too deeply. I said someone would hand Israel their ass if they don’t stop. Afterwards, I stated that it would turn into complete hell if that did happen, then I said I hope it doesn’t happen. I don’t understand what you are missing, man. “If they don’t stop, someone will kick their ass. I hope not because it would be a helluva fight between them.” That’s all I meant. I’m not going to argue semantics all night. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Don’t know much about the fog of war and/or failure rates of munitions, do ya? The US hit the French Embassy during the Libya Raid years ago. Seems like we also hit a Chinese Embassy by accident in a more recent military adventure. We only admitted the F-117 existed after we used it in Panama, and one of them missed the target. In Desert Storm, one of our A-10s rolled in on British tanks and lit em up. We lead the world in precision weapons, and we still have weapons that fail for various reasons. Sometimes the guidance package goes wonky, sometimes the weapon itself malfuntions, either losing the target lock or having other problems. Sometimes human error enters the picture. Shit happens. You must be jewish, because I don’t understand what you’re trying to start with me. I’m simply stating my opinions here. Israel’s attacks have been precision attacks for the past two weeks, period. You can argue all you want about what has happened in the past, but weapon systems are superior to what they were just five years ago (which is longer than the incidents you posted). You tell me, is this recent shot from Israel a coincidence or does it look like good aim? [http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060724/capt.fd6120f462de4c97a1b54fa62cb0dcf2.mideast\_lebanon\_israel\_fighting\_ambulances\_ny117.jpg](http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060724/capt.fd6120f462de4c97a1b54fa62cb0dcf2.mideast_lebanon_israel_fighting_ambulances_ny117.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![diggleblop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/26 "2006-07-26T04:48:55Z")
Sorry, I mean to say those incidents happened longer than five years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/27 "2006-07-26T05:08:42Z")
> [@diggleblop](#): > > You must be jewish, because I don’t understand what you’re trying to start with me. I’m simply stating my opinions here. Israel’s attacks have been precision attacks for the past two weeks, period. You can argue all you want about what has happened in the past, but weapon systems are superior to what they were just five years ago (which is longer than the incidents you posted). > > You tell me, is this recent shot from Israel a coincidence or does it look like good aim? Okey-dokey, then. Somebody make some popcorn, maybe pass out some beers. I must be Jewish? Afraid not. My mother was raised Southern Baptist, and I’m mostly apathetic about religion. Are you seriously suggesting that modern weapons are incapable of malfunction? Do you have any idea what “fog of war” means? Did Tinkerbell sprinkle fairy dust over the entire Middle East so that friendly fire incidents are hereby eliminated from the realm of possibility? You’d think I woulda caught that on CNN… So far, your original opinion was “Somebody will hand Israel their ass”. I asked who, you said Iran. I snorted derisively, but you did not hear it. I did point out a few logisitical problems there…like the US Military currently being between Israel and Iran, and the other options involving Iranian invasions of other countries enroute to Israel. Oh, and the part about Israel probably being able to handle Iran with conventional forces. You countered with Iran lobbing a nuke that they don’t have, using a delivery system that they also don’t have. When I pointed out that there would be defensive measures taken, and massive retaliation from Israel and possibly the US, all of a sudden Israel goes from receiving its ass on a platter to both sides turning the entire region into a “sheet of glass”. Your opinion lacks internal consistency. ---
**Author:** ![diggleblop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/28 "2006-07-26T05:10:08Z")
I have to correct something I said up above. I should’ve said, Israel’s strikes have been precision and pinpoint _up until a few days ago_. Now it’s all out pounding. My whole point and belief is this, I just want all people to stop killing each other. Killing is killing is killing. It’s all bad news and very bothersome. ---
**Author:** ![diggleblop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/29 "2006-07-26T05:18:38Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Okey-dokey, then. Somebody make some popcorn, maybe pass out some beers. > > I must be Jewish? Afraid not. My mother was raised Southern Baptist, and I’m mostly apathetic about religion. Good for you. > [@](#): > > Are you seriously suggesting that modern weapons are incapable of malfunction? Do you have any idea what “fog of war” means? Did Tinkerbell sprinkle fairy dust over the entire Middle East so that friendly fire incidents are hereby eliminated from the realm of possibility? You’d think I woulda caught that on CNN… Where did I say that? All I said was that modern weaponery is far superior that it was just five years ago. Stop putting words in people’s mouths, or keyboard rather. > [@](#): > > Oh, and the part about Israel probably being able to handle Iran with conventional forces. You countered with Iran lobbing a nuke that they don’t have, using a delivery system that they also don’t have. I said: and what I mean is that if Iran is as close to the nuke as they say they are, they won’t hesitate one bit to use it **once it’s done.** It’s just going to escalate that bad if something doesn’t give soon. **It may be ten years** until then, but \*\*Iran won’t forget. \*\*I see it as Lebanon being Iran’s right hand and Israel being the US’s right hand. Please re-read before putting words in people’s mouths. > [@](#): > > When I pointed out that there would be defensive measures taken, and massive retaliation from Israel and possibly the US, all of a sudden Israel goes from receiving its ass on a platter to both sides turning the entire region into a “sheet of glass”. Your opinion lacks internal consistency. Don’t flatter yourself into thinking you made me change my arguement becuase of what you said. Because you don’t know what I was thinking, and just by saying one comment, that doesn’t write my thoughts in stone of the whole context of the arguement. My opinion only lacks people’s understanding to what I’m saying, such as yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/30 "2006-07-26T05:31:06Z")
> [@diggleblop](#): > > You must be jewish, because I don’t understand what you’re trying to start with me. …excuse me? ---
**Author:** ![diggleblop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/31 "2006-07-26T05:38:27Z")
I mean it in the sense that he seemed like he was overly defensive of Israel’s actions. Why, does that seem racist or something? Because I assure you, I’m not an inkling of a racist. ---
**Author:** ![diggleblop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/32 "2006-07-26T05:50:06Z")
Oakminster, for the record I know what you’re trying to point out. You are saying that since I said Israel would get their “ass handed to them”, then why do I think both areas would be demolished. Well, I know that Israel would go down swinging, but would inevitably be crushed. Both places would in all honesty. It would be a brawl of all brawls. To me, having your ass handed to you doesn’t necassarily mean you didn’t fight back. Ok, I’m out of this thread, it’s become too much typing. Not to mention I’ve been debating this very subject on two other forums. G’night ! ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/33 "2006-07-26T11:54:18Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Seems like we also hit a Chinese Embassy by accident in a more recent military adventure. That was the Balkan War, back in Clinton’s day. I remember there being some controversy about that incident. It seems that there was a Chinese missle expert staying at the embassy who the US believed was advising the Serbians. He died in the attack. Basically, it was a very convenient accident. What bothers me about Israel’s attacks isn’t the bombing of the UN post (which was probably just a mistake) but that they targeted Lebanese television stations. Including stations which are owned by Christians. Theoretically, TV stations could be used to give orders to Hezbollah fighters, but I strongly suspect that Israel’s main reason for those particular attacks was to cut down on the number of pictures of dead bodies and crying children that come out of Lebanon. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/34 "2006-07-26T12:25:34Z")
I definitely think Kofi spoke out of turn. The timeline does seem to counter the “fog of war” argument though. - Known UN post, [flying big blue flag](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=I0M4D53EVNQXVQFIQMGCFFOAVCBQUIV0?xml=/news/2006/07/26/uun.xml), is shelled. - UN observers take refuge in bunker. - UN observers [talk to IDF](http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/26/mideast.observers/), explain who they are. - French ambassador tells senior IDF rep that its soldiers are shelling a UN post. - Air Force drops bunker buster on shelter, killing peacekeepers. However, I’ll reserve judgement until the Israeli enquiry is out. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2006, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019/35 "2006-07-26T12:53:46Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > The timeline does seem to counter the “fog of war” argument though. > > However, I’ll reserve judgement until the Israeli enquiry is out. TIme for someone to mention the [U.S.S. Liberty](http://www.ussliberty.org/) > [@Diceman](#): > > It seems that there was a Chinese missle expert staying at the embassy who the US believed was advising the Serbians. He died in the attack. Interesting. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-heating-up-in-the-middle-east/366019.md?page=1)