# Things I just found out about The Lion King **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 6, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171 "2015-01-06T23:25:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/21 "2015-01-07T21:07:50Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Kinda works for Star Wars, too. It’s a pretty generic story line. Disney does seem to have rehashed it more than once. Or twice. (And, hey, now they own Star Wars, so…) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/22 "2015-01-07T21:14:19Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Do you think it was literally Mufasa’s ghost, or just a vision Simba had? (In which case, he cannot have new information) In your _face_, space coyote! ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/23 "2015-01-07T21:18:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > In your _face_, space coyote! You must avenge my death, Kimba - I mean, Simba. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/24 "2015-01-07T23:19:12Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I read [Buzzfeed](http://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/disney-tumblr-tbh-i-just-want-silver#.vmyp732yW) too. I’m happy for you. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/25 "2015-01-09T03:49:30Z")
> [@Recusant](#): > > Given the time frame, proximity, and intermixing, you can almost get away with Scottish (almost). But Shakespeare was as Danish as apple pie; both plays are English. If I write a play that takes place on Mars, that does not make the play Martian. Psst - Macbeth is known colloquially as That Scottish Play in theatrical circles. It’s considered bad luck to refer to it by name. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/26 "2015-01-09T06:33:16Z")
Though I’d really like to see the version where Nala can’t seem to wash the blood off her muzzle, and the appearance of Pumbaa’s ghost sends Simba into a fit. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/27 "2015-01-09T17:33:32Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > As noted, it’s more Hamlet than Macbeth. But then, many a thousand productions have recycled one of the four or five Shaksper staples - eliminate everything based on those, Lear, Romeo’s An Idiot and so forth and half the films in the vault would disappear. (Along with Sons of Anarchy.) Also a heavy dose of Henry V, what with the emphasis on how the realm is only truly stable when the Right Person Is King, and that it is therefore the rightful King’s moral duty to make sure he is, in fact, the King. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/28 "2015-01-09T18:10:28Z")
Compare: > [@](#): > > **Hamlet:** …this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o’erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire - why, it appeareth no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. > [@](#): > > **Pumbaa:** Hey, Timon, ever wonder what those sparkly dots are up there? > \*\*Timon: \*\*Pumbaa, I don’t wonder - I know. > **Pumbaa:** Oh. What are they? > **Timon:** They’re fireflies. Fireflies that, uh… got stuck up on that big bluish-black thing. > **Pumbaa:** Oh, gee. I always thought they were balls of gas burning billions of miles away. > **Timon:** Pumbaa, with you, everything’s gas. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/29 "2015-01-09T19:39:52Z")
> [@D18](#): > > Psst - Macbeth is known colloquially as That Scottish Play in theatrical circles. It’s considered bad luck to refer to it by name. Nitpick: Only when you’re actually, physically in a theatre (and excepting, of course, during a production of this play). ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/30 "2015-01-09T21:35:03Z")
NVM, looks like EVERYONE said what I was going to say before I said it. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/31 "2015-01-09T21:47:20Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Nitpick: Only when you’re actually, physically in a theatre (and excepting, of course, during a production of this play). Oh! I thought it was very specifically during a production of Macbeth that you must absolutely not say “Macbeth.” Saying it at any time, during any theatrical performance is bad luck, but actually during Macbeth, it’s super-super bad luck. Anyway, that’s what one actor told me once… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/32 "2015-01-09T22:00:42Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > This is pretty well known, but “Lion King” has many essential parts lifted from the earlier animated series “Kimba, the White Lion.” . This is simply not true. Yes, both concern a young “Prince of the Jungle”, which is a rather logical thing to come out of “King of the Jungle”, which meme is centuries old (well at least since the 19th, if not before) . Kimba had so many episodes over so many iterations that similarities were bound to show up. The basic plot is not like Lion King at all. However, it is more than a little like Hamlet, which Disney acknowledged. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/33 "2015-01-09T22:00:46Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Oh! I thought it was very specifically during a production of Macbeth that you must absolutely not say “Macbeth.” Saying it at any time, during any theatrical performance is bad luck, but actually during Macbeth, it’s super-super bad luck. I wonder what ensues if you’re typing forum posts while in a theater, and type M A C B E T H … ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/34 "2015-01-09T22:03:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > This is simply not true. Yes, both concern a young “Prince of the Jungle”, which is a rather logical thing to come out of “King of the Jungle”, which meme is centuries old (well at least since the 19th, if not before) . > > Kimba had so many episodes over so many iterations that similarities were bound to show up. The basic plot is not like Lion King at all. However, it is more than a little like Hamlet, which Disney acknowledged. A quick look at the character design for Kimba, and that for Simba, renders denials of influence rather implausible. [http://www.virginmedia.com/images/rip-offs-simba-kimba-590x350.jpg](http://www.virginmedia.com/images/rip-offs-simba-kimba-590x350.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/35 "2015-01-09T22:14:30Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > A quick look at the character design for Kimba, and that for Simba, renders denials of influence rather implausible. > > [http://www.virginmedia.com/images/rip-offs-simba-kimba-590x350.jpg](http://www.virginmedia.com/images/rip-offs-simba-kimba-590x350.jpg) _Kimba had so many episodes over so many iterations that similarities were bound to show up._ But anyway- other that the fact they both have a baboon, what’s so similar? Simba has five lions, a warthog, a meercat, a baboon, a hyena, and a hornbill. Kimba has two lions, a cheetah? a baboon, a parrot, a impala? and a zebra? Not to mention the two shots are heavily cropped to show “similarities”:dubious: . If you look at the actual source for Kimba, they cropped out a elephant and a chimp? and the mountain is a primary focus. Compare to the original Disney shot (which adds two more hyenas, Scar and a entirely different scenery) , and the similarities are minor- about what you’d expect in two films about a “Lion Prince” and his animal friends. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/36 "2015-01-09T22:45:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > . . . But anyway- other that the fact they both have a baboon, what’s so similar? . . . They both have a wise baboon as a mentor, a goofy bird as a sidekick, a dead father who appears to them in the stars, an adult lion who is a competitor (although Claw doesn’t play quite the same role as Scar) and goofy hyenas as highly inept villains. There are even such tiny similarities as lions eating bugs so as not to be carnivorous! [Here is a link to an article on the subject, written by Fred Patten.](http://www.awn.com/mag/issue5.03/5.03pages/pattenkimba.php3) It’s reasonably scholarly – he was invited to a university symposium in Australia to present it. Most certainly there are distinct differences. Kimba dealt more with “fantasy” sub-plots, such as the mysterious Mammoth that came to visit from a ghostly mountain, or hidden cities with buried idols. Kimba introduced humans into the story: Caesar was shot by a hunter, and Roger Ranger was a regular character. And most certainly, some of the similarities are coincidences. But…there are enough core similarities to make some of us pretty certain that there was conscious borrowing going on. (Want to try to convince us that Bomba the Jungle Boy wasn’t derivative of Tarzan?) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/37 "2015-01-09T23:01:44Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > They both have a wise baboon as a mentor, a goofy bird as a sidekick, a dead father who appears to them in the stars, an adult lion who is a competitor (although Claw doesn’t play quite the same role as Scar) and goofy hyenas as highly inept villains. > > There are even such tiny similarities as lions eating bugs so as not to be carnivorous! > > [Here is a link to an article on the subject, written by Fred Patten.](http://www.awn.com/mag/issue5.03/5.03pages/pattenkimba.php3) It’s reasonably scholarly – he was invited to a university symposium in Australia to present it. Simba has nearly fifty major characters. _Of course_ there’s a baboon. And the bird is a parrot, and certainly with 50 characters one would be a bird. There’s also a gazelle, a leopard, a elephant, a owl, and quite a few humans- and there are no humans in LK. There’s like 10000 hours of Kimba stuff. Look long enough and you’ll find many similarities. However, the first film, the original is not at all similar. Actually that link only sez "_Then in June 1994, Disney’s The Lion King was released. A controversy hit the news that summer as to whether or not the Disney blockbuster had consciously copied from the 1960s Kimba cartoons. Disney went on record that none of its Lion King production crew had ever heard of Kimba or of Tezuka. This brought publicized hoots of derision from animation professionals, including a “Kimba…I mean Simba” gag in an episode of The Simpsons. This made Kimba newsworthy, but still not available to a curious public."_ Note that even Snopes doesnt even bother mentioning the UL. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/38 "2015-01-09T23:13:05Z")
The Master Speaks: > **[Did Disney’s The Lion King rip off an old Japanese TV series?](https://www.straightdope.com/21342531/did-disney-s-em-the-lion-king-em-rip-off-an-old-japanese-tv-series)** ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/39 "2015-01-09T23:24:52Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Oh! I thought it was very specifically during a production of Macbeth that you must absolutely not say “Macbeth.” Saying it at any time, during any theatrical performance is bad luck, but actually during Macbeth, it’s super-super bad luck. > > Anyway, that’s what one actor told me once… How would that even work? The play’s title is the main character’s name; it’s said aloud by half of the cast. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171/40 "2015-01-12T19:59:04Z")
> [@D18](#): > > Psst - Macbeth is known colloquially as That Scottish Play in theatrical circles. It’s considered bad luck to refer to it by name. It is bad luck to quote the play Macbeth, if you are in a theater. (of course if you are in a production of Macbeth, it is OK) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-just-found-out-about-the-lion-king/709171.md?page=3)