# Things I Learned Watching the original Perry Mason **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [July 9, 2023, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814 "2023-07-09T14:42:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/21 "2023-07-12T14:50:50Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Hamilton Berger William Talman was an interesting guy. He was fired from Perry Mason when he was arrested at an orgy where marijuana was being smoked. He later became the first actor to produce anti smoking messages. A lifelong smoker, he ended up with lung cancer which killed him just a short time after filming his PSAs ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/22 "2023-07-12T14:53:06Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > He was fired from Perry Mason when he was arrested at an orgy where marijuana was being smoked. Didn’t Raymond Burr put up bail to get him out from that arrest? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/23 "2023-07-12T15:18:26Z")
Burr helped Talman get rehired by CBS. The narcotic and lewdness charges were eventually dropped. I don’t know who paid his bail, though. One of the women at the party ended up marrying Talman. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/24 "2023-07-12T17:21:06Z")
as a side note, before Ray Collins started portraying Tragg, he appeared in an episode as a bad-guy manager (they used a lot of recurring actors) ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/25 "2023-07-12T17:29:11Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > On a side note-why is Tragg a Lieutenant, not a Detective? Or am I backwards and Lt outranks a detective? Lieutenant is his rank. Detective is his job description. In the Patrol Division, you have Patrolmen, Patrol Sergeants, Patrol Lieutenants, etc. In the Investigation Division, you have Detectives, Detective Sergeants, Detective Lieutenants, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/26 "2023-07-12T17:31:48Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Lieutenant is his rank. Detective is his job description. > In the Patrol Division, you have Patrolmen, Patrol Sergeants, Patrol Lieutenants, etc. > In the Investigation Division, you have Detectives, Detective Sergeants, Detective Lieutenants, etc. Ah! For some reason, I’ve only thought of Lieutenants as being uniformed and Detectives as plainclothed. Never sank in about ranks in Detective for some reason, even though I’m sure I’ve seen it on TV and movies and such. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/27 "2023-07-12T17:45:03Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Naming your child Hamilton Berger is just cruel. No wonder he’s hard on criminals. On a side note-why is Tragg a Lieutenant, not a Detective? Or am I backwards and Lt outranks a detective? You did realize that his nickname would be “Ham Burger,” which is what Perry makes him into each week. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/28 "2023-07-12T17:47:05Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > You did realize that his nickname would be “Ham Burger,” which is what Perry makes him into each week. Yeah, that win/loss record must really weigh on a man. I bet he twitches when Perry is mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/29 "2023-07-12T18:07:33Z")
According to Wikipedia, Talman noted that Berger didn’t lose all those cases–he failed to convict innocent people, which should count as a win for a DA interested in justice. As opposed, say, to re-election. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/30 "2023-07-12T18:09:07Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Never sank in about ranks in Detective for some reason, even though I’m sure I’ve seen it on TV and movies and such. In _Barney Miller_, Miller is a captain. Fish, Dietrich, and Yemana are sergeants. Wojo is initially a Detective 3rd Grade, later promoted to Sergeant. Harris is initially a Detective 1st Grade, later promoted to Sergeant. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/31 "2023-07-12T18:10:04Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > According to Wikipedia, Talman noted that Berger didn’t lose all those cases–he failed to convict innocent people, which should count as a win for a DA interested in justice. As opposed, say, to re-election. I guess if you’re all interested in people doing the right thing. 🙄 😄 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/32 "2023-07-12T20:08:13Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > > [@RealityChuck](#): > > > > You did realize that his nickname would be “Ham Burger,” which is what Perry makes him into each week. > > Yeah, that win/loss record must really weigh on a man. I bet he twitches when Perry is mentioned. Note how often that when they show his head in close-up, it’s at an angle. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/33 "2023-07-12T20:30:56Z")
That is a good point. Just bad luck for him that only innocent people wanted Perry to defend them. He did fail to figure out the clear pattern there, he could have just asked Perry to work out what actually happened without all the rigamarole of a trial. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/34 "2023-07-12T20:44:44Z")
Was it a censor Hays Code kind of thing that he always defended an innocent person? Or a show runner mandate? If a client had been guilty once in a while it would have been more exciting. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/35 "2023-07-12T21:22:59Z")
Nope. He was just that good. He was written that way on the TV show because the character already had that reputation long established in books and movies before the TV show began. And the audience loved it that way just as they had done before. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/36 "2023-07-12T21:36:52Z")
William Hopper (Paul Drake) was the son of famous Hollywood columnist Hedda Hopper. He was considered for the lead role before Burr. He had been a Navy frogman in WWII, a job frought with danger. He was awarded the Bronze Star for his service. Once the role of Perry Mason was given to the 6’ tall Burr they may have felt the need to cast a larger man like the 6’3" Hopper to play the ‘muscle’ on the show. Like other characters his role was established in books that preceded the TV show and the producers were attempting to cast actors that would match the expectations of the audience. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/37 "2023-07-12T22:14:09Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > When you never lose a case, you get to drive a really sweet convertible. Conversely, a district attorney who never, ever wins a case can still keep his job seemingly forever. The fact that the DA’s name was literally Ham Burger was plenty enough reason to fire him on the spot. Actually, I believe that the LA county DA is elected, so what I learned was that the voters of LA county are either halfwits or criminals. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/38 "2023-07-12T22:21:25Z")
Perry Mason wasn’t the only defense attorney in Los Angeles. The cases depicted in the series were only a small fraction of Burger’s caseload. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/39 "2023-07-12T22:23:46Z")
And Perry did leave other DA’s befuddled as well. He’s an equal opportunity wrecking ball, legally speaking. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814/40 "2023-07-12T23:45:21Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > When you never lose a case, you get to drive a really sweet convertible. Especially if most of your clients are ordinary working stiffs with average bank accounts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-i-learned-watching-the-original-perry-mason/986814.md?page=3)