# Things illegal for US Citizens to to abroad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548 "2011-09-25T13:51:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/41 "2011-09-26T17:38:28Z")
Actually, the US was engaging (or trying to) in double taxation, in violation of treaties. First, I don’t know which other countries tax income of non-resident citizens, although there may be some. Next, by a treaty with Canada, taxes paid in one country are supposed to become tax credits in the other. When I filed my year 2000 return, the first year I was retired and could not exclude most of my income as foreign earned income, I discovered to my astonishment that the foreign tax credit was on the line above the alternate minimum tax. This meant it was considered a tax dodge, not a real credit. The Bush tax cuts reversed these two lines in the return. I really had to scramble to decide what part of my pension was return of capital (they have a formula for that, but what part of the money I had used to buy the annuity was my contribution?) At any rate, I avoided any alternate minimum tax that year but eventually that exemption will go away. Many years (decades actually) ago, a friend had a pile of Cuban cigars bought in Montreal when he drove to NY. For some reason they opened his bag and “saw” them, except they decided not to “see” them and let him continue. ---
**Author:** ![spikebrennan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@spikebrennan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spikebrennan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/42 "2011-09-26T17:50:45Z")
I would imagine that if you’re abroad, conspiring to commit a crime in the United States (like murder, say), you could be prosecuted in the United States for the act of conspiracy. I think this is what [John Walker Lindh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh) was to be prosecuted for. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/43 "2011-09-26T18:00:28Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > This is the way I understood it as well. This way the crime (the travel for the purpose) is committed when you are standing in line at JFK Airport, within US jurisdiction. So, if you just happen to be abroad on business or whatever, and the opportunity, uh, comes up, you’re in the clear? (I hasten to add that I am only curious about the state of the law, NOT looking for info for my own use!) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/44 "2011-09-26T18:13:21Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > However, the embassy is technically US soil so this may not count. The soil of the U.S. embassy in Algeria is “technically” Algerian soil, not U.S. soil. The Algerian government may have agreed not to take certain actions on that property, but that does not make it U.S. soil. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/45 "2011-09-26T18:21:12Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > I don’t know of any country with legal prostitution that allows anyone under the age of 18 to be a prostitute, but assuming there is one, then yes, an American could be prosecuted for this. In Switzerland there was/is (?) a loophole in the law that makes it legal for 16 year olds to work as a prostitute. They are working on a law to correct this, but I’m not sure they are done yet. I also wouldn’t know how to make any charges (unless someone explicitly goes looking for young girls) since in most cases it is the sexclub or agency that checks whether girls are old enough. There is no reason to assume a prostitute will be truthfull about her age to a client. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/46 "2011-09-26T19:05:54Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > So, if you just happen to be abroad on business or whatever, and the opportunity, uh, comes up, you’re in the clear? I think that a US lawyer versed in extraterritoriality should step in here, for I doubt very much if this alleged business about the infringement taking place while at the airport rather than in the other country holds any water. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/47 "2011-09-26T19:28:26Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I believe that bribing local officials is illegal for American companies and individuals, even in countries where such practice is not only tolerated but expected. The company I used to work paid some fines for that, but no one went to jail. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/48 "2011-09-26T19:34:47Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The soil of the U.S. embassy in Algeria is “technically” Algerian soil, not U.S. soil. The Algerian government may have agreed not to take certain actions on that property, but that does not make it U.S. soil. While it may be shorthand for the treaty obligations pertaining to embassies, for all intents and purposes, embassy property is treated exactly as though it were physically part of that country’s soil. A fleeing fugitive who makes it into the embassy’s gates is as safe as though he had crossed the national border, barring a major violation of international law. (The invasion of the embassy in Tehran in 1979 was technically an act of war.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/49 "2011-09-26T19:40:34Z")
Not “exactly as though it were physically part of that country’s soil.” Any crimes committed on that property are subject to the jurisdiction of the host country. The government might not physically go after the person seeking sanctuary there, but they certainly have the right to ask that the person be turned over, and the U.S. government, depending on the circumstances, might accede to such a request. Any such crimes are not considered as having occurred “on U.S. soil” in any sense of the word. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/50 "2011-09-27T00:16:34Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > So, if you just happen to be abroad on business or whatever, and the opportunity, uh, comes up, you’re in the clear? > > (I hasten to add that I am only curious about the state of the law, NOT looking for info for my own use!) Research helps us all! To answer your question: Before 2003, yes. [QUOTE=Wikipedia] Before congressional passage of the Protect Act of 2003, prosecutors had to prove that sex tourists went abroad with the intent of molesting children—something almost impossible to demonstrate. The Protect Act shifted the burden, making predators liable for the act itself. Penalties were doubled from 15 years in prison to 30. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/51 "2011-09-27T20:17:33Z")
Isn’t it illegal for a US citizen to give money to organizations on an anti-terrorism watch list, no matter where the donor is located? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/52 "2011-09-27T20:40:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It’s illegal for a U.S. citizen to buy a Cuban cigar (or other Cuban product) in another country where such a purchase is otherwise legal. [Cite](http://cigars.about.com/od/cubantradeembargo/qt/0062002a.htm). I returned form vacationing in Jamaica a few years back and received extra special treatment from the customs folks on my way back. Long hair, Marley Tshirt, etc, maybe I shoulda expected it. As I was being questioned and my bags searched, I began sweating. I asked the guy if I volunteered something illegal in my luggage would my punishment be less. I had a Cuban cigar stub (maybe half an inch) with the band. I was laughed at. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/53 "2011-09-28T07:02:47Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > Are you sure it’s common practice? I only have knowledge of the Irish case, where Irish citizens living abroad are not liable for tax in Ireland on income earned overseas. I didn’t file taxes for 2006 anywhere. Switzerland: “no, you haven’t resided here for 180 days in that year, so no filing.” France: same. Spain (Navarra): same. I asked France “so what about the income tax which was withdrawn” and got crickets. OK, so there’s a couple kilometers of French roads to my name 😛 In years in which I made money in the US and Spain, the situation varied depending on how much I’d made where. There was a year I had to file and pay income tax in the US (and was under the filing limit for Spain), another year I had to file in the US so they’d return my withdrawals (and file and pay in Spain). But the problem there was the US, my situation for any other year is defined by “where am I a tax resident?” A different situation is residing someplace and getting income from someplace else. For example, in the next few months I’ll be a tax resident of Navarra, working in Madrid and billing the UK. The key part is the first item: I have to file in Navarra, and that income gets declared in Navarra. If the UK is interested in my income, they get an explanation of “whatchatalkinabout?” ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/54 "2011-09-28T07:51:55Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > . . . A different situation is residing someplace and getting income from someplace else. For example, in the next few months I’ll be a tax resident of Navarra, working in Madrid and billing the UK. The key part is the first item: I have to file in Navarra, and that income gets declared in Navarra. If the UK is interested in my income, they get an explanation of “whatchatalkinabout?” It’s not an explanation they’ll be satisfied with, I fear. A non-resident of the UK is taxable on his UK-source income, subject to relief under any applicable double tax treaty. So they’ll want to tax you on your UK source income, and let you apply for relief (if you’re entitled to it) under the tax treaty. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/55 "2011-09-28T10:37:17Z")
Only, the payments go from a company in the UK to a company-person in Spain. They’re not subject to withdrawals or VAT on account of being “international commerce”: they’re not “being employed by a company in the UK”. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/56 "2011-09-28T21:44:57Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I returned form vacationing in Jamaica a few years back and received extra special treatment from the customs folks on my way back. Long hair, Marley Tshirt, etc, maybe I shoulda expected it. > > As I was being questioned and my bags searched, I began sweating. I asked the guy if I volunteered something illegal in my luggage would my punishment be less. > > I had a Cuban cigar stub (maybe half an inch) with the band. I was laughed at. Did he let you keep it? I remember in the mid-1990s, if you got caught at the Canadian border (coming to the US) with a couple of boxes or less of Cuban cigars (or any amount obvious for personal use only), the policy was to confiscate them and give you a stern lecture. If you had a Ryder truck full of them, you were in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/57 "2011-09-28T22:23:22Z")
I seem to recall, could be mistaken, parents getting in trouble for letting their minor kids consume alcohol in a country without our morality hang ups. I was wondering about this recently, as personally I’d have no trouble with either of my teenage kids trying a glass of wine or a beer if we were in Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/58 "2011-09-29T00:25:25Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > I’m in a part of Mexico very popular with tourists from the US and Canada, they sell Cuban cigars here at almost every little corner store, and one of the first questions many tourists ask when they get off the plane is where they can find them. I haven’t heard of any cases of this being prosecuted but it would be interesting to see if it stood up in court once challenged. I heard (though I don’t have a cite; sorry) that one of the reasons the Customs officials don’t seem to care too much about those cigars is that all those \*bodegas \*are selling cigars \*labeled \*as Cuban; that is a cat of a different color than selling _Cuban cigars_. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/59 "2011-09-29T00:36:55Z")
> [@Reno\_Nevada](#): > > I heard (though I don’t have a cite; sorry) that one of the reasons the Customs officials don’t seem to care too much about those cigars is that all those \*bodegas \*are selling cigars \*labeled \*as Cuban; that is a cat of a different color than selling _Cuban cigars_. That was always my impression as well. Of course once you’re in Mexico, it’d be a shame not to smoke some _Te Amo_ cigars, which are really quite great. For real Cubans, it’s likely that Sanborns is selling legitimate stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548/60 "2011-09-29T00:55:41Z")
> [@Reno\_Nevada](#): > > I heard (though I don’t have a cite; sorry) that one of the reasons the Customs officials don’t seem to care too much about those cigars is that all those \*bodegas \*are selling cigars \*labeled \*as Cuban; that is a cat of a different color than selling _Cuban cigars_. I’m sure there are counterfeits but these aren’t all just bodegas they have fine tobacconists, fancy smoke shops that hand roll cigars for their connoisseur clientele, and also have big selections of Cuban, Dominican,etc. cigars for sale. Not being illegal, and Cuba being just a very short ride away, I doubt that the majority of them are counterfeit, or even a very large percentage. I could imagine there being a market for counterfeits at tourist spots right at the US border though. Otherwise there isn’t really anywhere in the world there would be a market for counterfeits, because they aren’t any more expensive or rare than other cigars in the same shops. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-illegal-for-us-citizens-to-to-abroad/597548.md?page=4)