# Things in movies for which you just can't suspend disbelief (poss unboxed spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 5, 2007, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576 "2007-07-05T09:39:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/101 "2007-07-06T12:55:10Z")
> [@](#): > > And eventually (Voyager and DS9) they seemed to get so lazy or cheap that most of those aliens were just people with some odd bit of rubber stuck to their head. I don’t think it’s laziness. 1.) People need an aliens they can relate to and which can express feeling. People use their eyes and mouths for this. If you take away an actor’s expressive eyes, you’ve hindered him or her. So for relatable aliens we put weird appurtenances around the periphery and leave the emotive parts free. 2.) CGI is expensive and time-consuming and wasn’t good until recently. And it was terrible at conveying emotion. 3.) Puppets don’t look real and have trouble conveying emotion and feeling. Not all puppeteers are Frank Oz. You can get away with comic characters (ALF) as puppets, but don’t try it with a major character. IIRC, babylon 5 had a Praying Mantis-like alien puppet. Looked convincing, but it didn’t last. My theory is that people couldn’t relate to it. In my opinion, people just react better to people-actors with mostly unobstructed face parts as aliens than they do to non-human ones (all those barely-noticed cues – independent eye motion, moving eyes, expanding pupils, moving lips, little head movements can be duplicated with puppets, but require commitment and money, and excellent performing skills), and it’s cheaper besides, so that’s what we get. ---
**Author:** ![Juggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/juggler/32/3194_2.png) [@Juggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Juggler)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/102 "2007-07-06T13:14:53Z")
[QUOTE=Soul] I’ll echo the sentiments about ordering “a beer” at a bar, or even worse, just sitting down at a bar and lifting a finger in some kind of beer salute and then being rewarded with precisely what you wanted. Nothing blows the moment away quite like that for me. [/QUOTE] I agree with Priceguy, in Sweden if you order a beer you get a light lager from the tap. That wouldn’t happen in the US? Also in Belgium if you raise your pinkie finger when in a club gets you a standard beer. ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/103 "2007-07-06T13:21:39Z")
[QUOTE=JohnT] I don’t know a single thing about fighting, but head-butting… you know, I just don’t see how using your head to hit things (even noses) is ever the right decision. [/QUOTE] Delivering a head-butt to the bridge of your opponent’s nose or to his eye socket will often end the fight - you’ll barely feel the impact, but the guy getting hit will be in an amazing amount of pain and often blinded by his own (involuntary) tears. You need to strike using the top of your forhead near the hairline where your skull is thick and tough. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/104 "2007-07-06T13:33:02Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] I don’t think it’s laziness. 1.) People need an aliens they can relate to and which can express feeling. People use their eyes and mouths for this. If you take away an actor’s expressive eyes, you’ve hindered him or her. So for relatable aliens we put weird appurtenances around the periphery and leave the emotive parts free. 2.) CGI is expensive and time-consuming and wasn’t good until recently. And it was terrible at conveying emotion. 3.) Puppets don’t look real and have trouble conveying emotion and feeling. Not all puppeteers are Frank Oz. You can get away with comic characters (ALF) as puppets, but don’t try it with a major character. IIRC, babylon 5 had a Praying Mantis-like alien puppet. Looked convincing, but it didn’t last. My theory is that people couldn’t relate to it. In my opinion, people just react better to people-actors with mostly unobstructed face parts as aliens than they do to non-human ones (all those barely-noticed cues – independent eye motion, moving eyes, expanding pupils, moving lips, little head movements can be duplicated with puppets, but require commitment and money, and excellent performing skills), and it’s cheaper besides, so that’s what we get. [/QUOTE] OK, I guess I can see the practical reasons behind it (no _Planet of the Apes_ - style rubber faces), but it still pulls me out of the moment. I end up going, “Ah, the miracle of parallel evolution: these aliens from across the galaxy evolved to look _exactly_ like humans except for a weird ridge between the eyes!” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/105 "2007-07-06T13:40:42Z")
> [@](#): > > OK, I guess I can see the practical reasons behind it (no Planet of the Apes - style rubber faces), but it still pulls me out of the moment. I end up going, “Ah, the miracle of parallel evolution: these aliens from across the galaxy evolved to look exactly like humans except for a weird ridge between the eyes!” Yeah. I’m hoping that now that CGI is becoming common and cheaper (and much more convincing than DS9 CGI) that we’ll finally see sympathetic nonhuman aliens, as in Hal Clement’s works. Or even Jack chalker’s. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/106 "2007-07-06T13:40:46Z")
There was a STTNG episode where they tried to explain the ubiquity of the humanoid form as being the end result of a deliberate act of panspermia, instigated by a dying race of (humanoid) aliens. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/107 "2007-07-06T14:12:19Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] There was a STTNG episode where they tried to explain the ubiquity of the humanoid form as being the end result of a deliberate act of panspermia, instigated by a dying race of (humanoid) aliens. [/QUOTE] Yes, although as I remember that they were just lonely, not dying. They evolved billions of years ago, and were the only intelligence around. They created and left behind a genetic program on a multitude of worlds that would subtlely shape life on those worlds towards intelligence, and the humanoid form. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/108 "2007-07-06T14:21:58Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Yes, although as I remember that they were just lonely, not dying. They evolved billions of years ago, and were the only intelligence around. They created and left behind a genetic program on a multitude of worlds that would subtlely shape life on those worlds towards intelligence, and the humanoid form. [/QUOTE] And I agree with the Klingon when he found out: “If she weren’t already dead, I would kill her myself.” ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/109 "2007-07-06T14:56:59Z")
[QUOTE=Juggler] I agree with Priceguy, in Sweden if you order a beer you get a light lager from the tap. That wouldn’t happen in the US? [/quote] Nowadays, in a lot of bars, there are several different classes of beer. The bartender would want you to commit to the $2.50 draft (like a PBR), or the $3 (say Molson), or the $3.50 (Sierra Nevada, what I get if I ask for a beer in one place), or the $4 (Sam Adams, frex.). Of course, if you’re a regular, the bartender will know what you drink. > [@](#): > > Also in Belgium if you raise your pinkie finger when in a club gets you a standard beer. Don’t do that in America. Also, **Sampiro** , did you mean _biped_? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/110 "2007-07-06T15:00:06Z")
[QUOTE=Uvula Donor] You need to strike using the top of your forhead near the hairline where your skull is thick and tough. [/QUOTE] Your hairline, maybe. My hairline has settled in right around where my fontanelle used to be, and I ain’t takin’ any chances. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/111 "2007-07-06T15:13:52Z")
[QUOTE=gigi] L&O: SVU has done a little better with the beer thing. Elliott will point in the direction of something behind the bar “One of them”. Or “domestic draft”. It actually takes me out of the moment because it’s such a refreshing change. [/QUOTE] Actually, does anyone say “domestic draft” in the real world? Wouldn’t he be more likely to say, “Gimme a Bud”? And a friend of mine interpreted Total Recall the same way that **Fiver** suggested; that the entire second half of the film was Quaid’s dream. It was a surprise to me, but it makes sense that way. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/112 "2007-07-06T15:25:07Z")
> [@](#): > > And a friend of mine interpreted Total Recall the same way that Fiver suggested; that the entire second half of the film was Quaid’s dream. It was a surprise to me, but it makes sense that way. They were clearly going for ambiguity throughout that movie, trying to let it be either way. But it sems way too pat that his Martian Adventure just happened to match up so closely with the pre-approved details of his bought and paid for dream. The one detail that strongly implies it was a dream probably wasn’t intentional. I missed it, but a friend pointed it out – when Michael Ironside’s character is communicating via phone in the car with his boss on Mars, there isn’t a several second delay, as there ought to be (radio signals aren’t instantaneous, and Mars, even at its closest, is far enough away to make a noticeable difference). I think the filmmmakers didn’t know and/or didn’t care. By the way, the premise of the original short story (and as told by the guy in the movie at Rekall) is not that he DREAMS something, but that he just REMEMBERS a fake past. I think that’d make for a dull film, though. I wouldn’t want to sit in a seat and watch Schwartzeneggar remember things for two hours. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/113 "2007-07-06T16:01:45Z")
[QUOTE=Juggler] I agree with Priceguy, in Sweden if you order a beer you get a light lager from the tap. That wouldn’t happen in the US? [/QUOTE] I’d imagine no. If nothing else, Bud/Coors light in bottles would be the “basic” order, probably 50/50. But, at least around here, there’s just too much beer available for the bartender to just take a guess. Anchor & Sierra are damn near as ubiquitous as Budweiser, and then there’s Stella… Well, I’m hijacking, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone order “a beer” and I can’t imagine any bartender knowing what that meant, unless the bar was having a “Free Blue Moon Night” promotion or something. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/114 "2007-07-06T16:02:51Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] The one detail that strongly implies it was a dream probably wasn’t intentional. I missed it, but a friend pointed it out – when Michael Ironside’s character is communicating via phone in the car with his boss on Mars, there isn’t a several second delay, as there ought to be (radio signals aren’t instantaneous, and Mars, even at its closest, is far enough away to make a noticeable difference). I think the filmmmakers didn’t know and/or didn’t care. [/QUOTE] There was also a scene that implied it was all real and happening … when the fat guy came into the room (accompanied by Arnold’s wife, I think) to tell Arnold that he needed to stop “remembering”, or whatever he actually said. The fat guy was a supposed to be a projection into the program. They were trying to get Arnold to surrender himself. Arnold was about to buy the story, when he saw a bead of sweat trickling down the fat guy’s face. Realizing a projection into his subconscious wouldn’t be nervous and sweaty, Arnold shoots everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/115 "2007-07-06T16:15:37Z")
[QUOTE=Dewey Finn] And a friend of mine interpreted Total Recall the same way that **Fiver** suggested; that the entire second half of the film was Quaid’s dream. It was a surprise to me, but it makes sense that way. [/QUOTE] How could it possible be a surprise to you when Quaid’s final line is along the lines of “What if it is all a dream?”. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/116 "2007-07-06T18:20:02Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] My bitch is in about 500 movies when a skinny girl gets dropped 20 -30 feet and stops the fall with her fingertips by grabbing on to a ledge. Arnolds movies like to do that. No man or woman could stop a long fall that way. [/QUOTE] I mean, basic physics dictates that the decelerating force would be applied to the girl’s body, but that her clothes would continue falling to the ground. Let’s have a little _realism_ on this point, Hollywood… ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/117 "2007-07-06T18:26:47Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] The one detail that strongly implies it was a dream probably wasn’t intentional. I missed it, but a friend pointed it out – when Michael Ironside’s character is communicating via phone in the car with his boss on Mars, there isn’t a several second delay, as there ought to be (radio signals aren’t instantaneous, and Mars, even at its closest, is far enough away to make a noticeable difference). I think the filmmmakers didn’t know and/or didn’t care. [/QUOTE] Several _minutes_, not seconds – at closest approach (about 55 million kilometers), it’s three minutes; usually, it’s more. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/118 "2007-07-06T18:29:28Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] See above. 😃 Perhaps there was a label in Martian saying “Incredibly Stupid Machine; Do Not Use.” And on this board I bet someone actually gets that reference [/QUOTE] Peter David, ST:TNG novel _“Strike Zone”_. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/119 "2007-07-06T19:03:41Z")
[QUOTE=Steve MB] Several _minutes_, not seconds – at closest approach (about 55 million kilometers), it’s three minutes; usually, it’s more. [/QUOTE] I am intrigued by your ideas. Is you newsletter delivered confidentially? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576/120 "2007-07-06T19:14:21Z")
I guess I don’t mind the ‘I’ll have a beer’ thing; since obvious and gratuitous product placement bothers me even more than suspensions of disbelieve that minor, I’m OK with erring on the side of genericness. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-in-movies-for-which-you-just-cant-suspend-disbelief-poss-unboxed-spoilers/410576.md?page=7)