# Things ruined in Germany by the Nazis **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 5, 2014, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395 "2014-07-05T05:17:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/41 "2014-07-05T14:54:05Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Not sure why you yelled GERMAN at me, but it’s a fairly common American neo-Nazi code for Heil Hitler (H=8th letter of the alphabet). > > This thread isn’t just about small things ruined for Germans, but also in the wider world. > > On a personal note, for me it’s being able to wear the Star of David. My parents had them pinned to their clothes in Poland, so I find it very hard to wear a traditional Star necklace. I know that’s not widespread, but it’s spoiled for me. Certainly 88 has no meaning in German or Germany relating to Hitler or Nazi at all. So, 88 basically its an US American thing, like calling ketchup a vegetable, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/42 "2014-07-05T14:54:32Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The Nazis ruined [snappy leather coats](http://lh6.ggpht.com/_1luLRXKoJM8/Spdah1uTBXI/AAAAAAAAaxg/WXdydFNivuY/thumb6.jpg) as a fashion statement.[URL=“[Japan: U.S. Rejects Katsuto Momii's Claim It Used Comfort Women in WWII | TIME.com](http://world.time.com/2014/01/29/comfort-women-japan-us-wwii-katsuto-momii-nhk/)”] Fuck that. _The Matrix_ brought them back. Don’t you dare tell this leather longcoat wearing asshole any different ! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/43 "2014-07-05T15:04:47Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Certainly 88 has no meaning in German or Germany relating to Hitler or Nazi at all. > > So, 88 basically its an US American thing, like calling ketchup a vegetable, right? As explained, it’s US neo-Nazi code. And ketchup is not called a vegetable by Americans. (I know what you’re referring to, but that’s a poor summary.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/44 "2014-07-05T15:07:48Z")
And I don’t think any of those numbers have really been stigmatized. When I see “88” at the end of a username, I assume a 1988 birth year. (Regardless, the question is about what has been ruined in Germany, not the US, which I why I suppose GERMAN was being capitalized in Doughbag’s post.) ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/45 "2014-07-05T15:15:57Z")
You must remember that it’s always preferable to, where possible, assume a racist interpretation, rather than risk letting a closet bigot slip through the net of condemnation. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/46 "2014-07-05T15:18:51Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > As explained, it’s US neo-Nazi code. Not specifically US. The leftist French punk band _Ludwig von 88_ picked it as well for example, although it was ironical on their part - they’re tight with various Antifa groups and tacked it at the end of their otherwise _Clockwork Orange_ inspired band name specifically to piss off the (very, very local at the time) neo-nazi slice of their punk audiences. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/47 "2014-07-05T15:21:22Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Hell, I’m not even German and I’m the same on that one. Guys with 88, 18 or 14 ([not directly Nazi related](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words)) in their usernames always make me very suspicious. There are plenty of ways it could be innocent of course, but… yeah. That’s funny. When I first went on line, on a freenet, more than 20 years ago, I entered a choice for username, and it said that was already taken, and offered a couple of alternatives, including jtur88 at the top of the list, so I clicked it. I’ve used it ever since, to avoid the necessity of clanking my recalcitrant short-term memory into gear… Today was the first time I have ever seen or heard of any idea that 88 had some goofy nazi reference, except once, about 5 years ago, somebody DMed in a forum and asked about it. I just assumed he had heard some nut case on all-night talk radio make some reference to it, and blew it off. You mean everybody think’s I’m a neo-nazi sympathizer? Good thing I didn’t use 711 (Ghengiz Khan) or 34 (Count Dracula) or 83 (Hillary Clinton). ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/48 "2014-07-05T15:22:09Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Any version with English, French or Spanish subtitles ? I \*used \*to know how to ein bißchen Deutsch sprechen, hab es in der Schule gelernt, aber… die Zeit alles zerstören wird, ja ? > > (I have no idea how horribly wrong that was. Please don’t plow through the Ardennes to educate me :o :)) That’s the problem, it’s German and only makes sense in German. German humor does not translate - and what translates makes no sense in English, never mind it being funny. The Nazi’s have ruined many things in Germany, like German national pride, but humor wasn’t, either way it’s certainly is not Germany’s biggest export product. Having the German flag flying is generally only used for national event. After all, the Germans know, that they are in Germany and don’t have such a short attention span, that needs reminding ever 5 steps in which country they are in. Its also pretty uncommon to pledge allegiances the a flag outside of fascist countries. Germans did not invent racism, this [US institution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan) was established before the NAZI party formed, the NAZI Germans certainly stepped up acting racism to next methodical level. However, Germans make for good villains in many movies. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/49 "2014-07-05T15:34:15Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Germans did not invent racism, this [US institution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan) was established before the NAZI party formed,. From the Wiki timeline: \* 1220: The Sachsenspiegel, the most influential German code of law from the Middle Ages condemns slavery as a violation of God’s likeness to man.\* That would be 556 years before the Americans codified their condemnation of Slavery. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/50 "2014-07-05T15:35:17Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > … the NAZI Germans certainly stepped up acting racism to next methodical level. Let’s be honest, though. They took it to the next level, and then the one after that, and the one after that… ETA: No criticism of modern-day Germany or Germans, whom I generally hold in high esteem, intended. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/51 "2014-07-05T15:38:47Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > As explained, it’s US neo-Nazi code. And ketchup is not called a vegetable by Americans. (I know what you’re referring to, but that’s a poor summary.) Neither does Ersatz mean a replacement of inferior quality in German, but its know that the US tried to sell ketchup as a vegetable. Also that an [island can tip over](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnk0tIqsbYM), if to many people stand on one side of it. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/52 "2014-07-05T15:50:14Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > Use of the digraphs “SS”, “SA”, “NS”, and sometimes “HH” are taboo, or even outright prohibited, due to their association with Nazi terminology (_Schutzstaffel_, _Sturmabteilung_, _Nationalsozialismus_, and _Heil Hitler_, respectively). For example, in most German jurisdictions it’s illegal for some or all of these letter combinations to be used in vehicle registration plates. (Some will allow them for registrants if those are their actual initials, though even then it would be prohibited to transfer the plates to someone else.) > > Even in everyday life the combinations are avoided—for example, in business meeting minutes, it’s common to refer to people by their initials, but if your name happens to be Silvana Schmidt the secretary might record you as SiS instead of SS.) Department of foolish thoughts: digraph SS being regarded with disfavour, had me initially thinking: this threatens to spoil the popular modern usage “Special Snowflake” (often abbreviated in English discourse, to “SS”) ; meaning, a person who behaves – habitually or “one-off” – in a very selfish, thoughtless manner; which can be excused at best, by tending to be oblivious of others around them, as opposed to consciously mentally telling them ,“fuck you”. However, the term would I take it be in German, _Besondere Schneeflocke_ – so, no bad-associations problem. (One would suspect that the historical SS had in its ranks, more than its fair share of Special Snowflakes; but that’s another thing.) ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/53 "2014-07-05T15:54:13Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Let’s be honest, though. They took it to the next level, and then the one after that, and the one after that… > > ETA: No criticism of modern-day Germany or Germans, whom I generally hold in high esteem, intended. Yup, they certainly did that in spades… Don’t know anyone else taking note and documenting on pulling teeth and hair shavings of their prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/54 "2014-07-05T15:54:47Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > You mean everybody think’s I’m a neo-nazi sympathizer? Possibly ? I admit I would have until now :o > [@](#): > > Good thing I didn’t use 711 (Ghengiz Khan) or 34 (Count Dracula) or 83 (Hillary Clinton). That’s the thing, though, right ? For some reason, neo-nazis feel a need to both advertise their brand of shit AND to to obfuscate it at the same time. I mean, you don’t see hardline, oldschool communists picking names ending in 119 in honour of Stalin or something. There’s no alphanumerical code for the Takbir for Muslim extremists either. But fascists think it’s cool or courageous for some reason. I ain’t complaining. I like a self-identified worthless bastard. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/55 "2014-07-05T15:57:43Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Certainly 88 has no meaning in German or Germany relating to Hitler or Nazi at all. > > So, 88 basically its an US American thing, like calling ketchup a vegetable, right? No one said it was a German thing. It’s been explained. No need to be snide or coy about American culture- it’s just symbolic here (and perhaps other places that happen to not be Germany). > [@Doughbag](#): > > Neither does Ersatz mean a replacement of inferior quality in German, but its know that the US tried to sell ketchup as a vegetable. > > Also that an [island can tip over](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnk0tIqsbYM), if to many people stand on one side of it. It may be “well known”, but it’s incorrect. Americans do not think of ketchup as a vegetable except as a joke. THat’s why people were upset when Reagan tried to pull that one. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/56 "2014-07-05T16:13:15Z")
The OP asks what has been ruined in Germany by the Nazis. The number combination 88 was ruined in the US by neo-Nazis. It’s one thing we can’t really blame Hitler for. There may not be many things we can’t blame him for, but that has got to be one of them. 😉 RE: SS - my mother had a good friend whose maiden name was Sally Smith (let’s say, it was slightly different). Sally Smith was German teacher. The school had the habit of the subject and then the initials of the teacher, such that her door and all the time tables read “German SS”. She quickly got married and is now thankfully Mrs. E. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/57 "2014-07-05T16:14:08Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’ve heard Fuhrer used to mean Leader in recent song lyrics, and NOT by neoNazis, so it hasn’t _completely_ disappeared > (Wolfsheim’s [Sparrows and the Nightingales](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQUDGl7JR7Y)) Wiki notes that it’s still used in compound words too, although I imagine anyone referring to themselves as fuhrer instead of leiter would raise serious eyebrows. > [@Bozuit](#): > > Pencil moustache? I assume you’re referring to moustaches like Hitler’s, but a pencil moustache is quite different. Think Vincent Price, John Waters, etc. You’re quite correct, don’t know where I got that one from - meant toothbrush moustache. > [@Doughbag](#): > > Please explain this to a GERMAN, since I don’t really know what you mean. I’ve always heard it as a code to hide in plain sight, other Nazis would get it but it would sail over the heads of…I don’t know what they call the rest of us? Normies? > [@Kobal2](#): > > Oh come on. It still is. Right ? :o > Joke aside, while the end of the Nazis didn’t correlate with an end to racism or anti-Semitism it did pound quite a few nails into the coffin of all eugenics, for good or ill. Though not just in Germany specifically (which was the OP’s concern) Aye, before the war eugenics was all the rage even in serious circles in western society. After the war…not so much. Although that’s assuming there was anything there to ruin. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/58 "2014-07-05T16:14:23Z")
In the UK, flying the Union Flag has long been a symbol of the right wing extremist organisations. In recent years, it seems to me to have been retaken by the centre to some extent. Maybe as a result of the scottish referendum, I don’t know. The whole 88 thing was complete news to me, as it seems it was to all non-Americans. Over here 88 is most likely to be found as a Chinese good luck number - I gather that licence plates, both here and in Hong Kong, with the number 88 in them, can change hands for ridiculous sums. This guy [expatlingo.com](http://expatlingo.com/2012/06/20/vanity-plates-of-the-wealthy-in-hong-kong-or-ill-take-18-for-2-million/) says that _“The highest priced plate I ran across was simply “18″ which sold during a special Lunar New Year auction for a breathtaking HKD 16,500,000 (US $2.1 million)”_ The cost of this plate would be out of reach of all but the multi billionaires [- YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GGRr5jOq0Y). ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/59 "2014-07-05T16:26:09Z")
Anecdotal, of course, but in my time in Germany I have met some very, very funny people. Also, just to point out: the current national anthem of Germany (beginning “Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit”) was originally the third verse of the hymn sometimes known as “Deutschland Uber Alles.” A couple of earlier posts seemed to suggest that the verse had been newly written. (For that matter, “Deutschland Uber Alles” was seen at the time as an extremely liberal-slash-progressive poem and was used in the revolution of 1848 as a republican-type symbol; it did not imply Gerrmany defeating Poland and France and ruling Europe or the world, just that the various small principalities should identify themselves as german and unify.) ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395/60 "2014-07-05T16:29:02Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Aye, before the war eugenics was all the rage even in serious circles in western society. After the war…not so much. Although that’s assuming there was anything there to ruin. Sure, because people suddenly realized that it’s not a good thing, when you take this shit to far… like Hitler did. For example, it made it pretty impossible for the English to hold on to India and to keep the dirty Indian named Ghandi in prison, while freeing Germany from the racist NAZI’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-ruined-in-germany-by-the-nazis/692395.md?page=4)