# Things that are considered "classics" but which you think are highly overrated **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 5, 2007, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276 "2007-11-05T10:51:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2007, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/141 "2007-11-06T22:29:56Z")
[QUOTE=MGibson] Canterbury Tales, Shakespeare, and now Beowulf? [/QUOTE] I was being sarcastic in my post mocking Beowulf and the Canterbury Tales. I thought the “excuse me while I fart” line would give it away – no? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2007, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/142 "2007-11-06T22:42:44Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] I mean he’s mystical in that he’s a religious figure. [/QUOTE] That’s a pretty broad definition of “mystical.” Book’s religion (to the extent that we see any of it) seems largely practical. He talks about how to act morally, how to treat other people, how to be a better person. I don’t believe he ever actually talks about anything supernatural at all. He doesn’t preach salvation, or life-after-death, or the existence of spirits, or the like. In addition, the “Mystical Negro” trope is a character with demonstrably supernatural powers. The groundskeeper from _The Shining_, who has a psychic vision that there’s trouble in the hotel, or the old woman from _The Stand_ who gets prophetic dreams, the gigantic inmate in _The Green Mile_ who can lay hands are examples of this trope. (And, oddly, are all from Stephen King books.) The irony of Book’s character is that, despite being a preacher, he’s arguably the most practical, grounded, and experienced person on the ship. In other words, the opposite of mystical. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/143 "2007-11-06T23:06:45Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] I’m with you on Tom Wolfe. Bonfire of the Vanities–I can’t get past about page 10. Never have–and I read all of Ayn Rand’s stuff AND Dickens–I know from wordy, superfulous prose. Don’t see his genius, and if he’s the poser who always wears a white suit, he needs to cut that Colonel Sanders shit out right now. I see from Wikipedia that he is. [/QUOTE] You’re talking about _Tom_ Wolfe - Thomas Wolfe is a different guy, from an older generation. I am a fan of Tom Wolfe myself and I think his genius is in the way he makes loathsome, despicable characters come alive, and the way that he explores issues of masculinity and power, and how he relentlessly mocks pop culture. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/144 "2007-11-07T01:16:06Z")
[QUOTE=TripleTee] Just a couple anonymous musicians wrote “I’d Like to Buy the World a Coke”. [/QUOTE] You just don’t know what you’re talking about, and it shows. Why do you bother coming to a board that’s supposed to be about fighting ignorance and then start spreading _your_ ignorance around? Maybe if you don’t find some information on MTV or YouTube, and if it’s not on the front of a supermarket ‘news’ weekly, you don’t know about it. For your information, the ‘I’d Like To Buy The World A Coke’ song was not written by a couple of anonymous musicians. It was written by Roger Cook and Roger Greenaway, two of the most successful popular songwriters of the 60s and 70s. Between them they wrote dozens of hit singles for a wide variety of pop singers and groups, and made a huge contribution to popular music. The fact that they wrote the song for the Coke ad, or more accurately adapted one of their own songs and turned it into an ad, was openly acknowledged at the time and widely known. The BBC ‘Horizon’ team even made a documentary called ‘Three Chord Trick’ examining how popular songwriters create ‘catchy’ tunes and songs. Cook and Greenaway were featured in the documentary, as was their work on the Coke ad. In future, try to participate in threads where you actually have the faintest idea what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/145 "2007-11-07T01:33:04Z")
FTR, as much as I despise Buffy, I actually liked the little of Firefly I’ve seen. > [@fluiddruid](#): > > Dune: So boring! I had to watch it in three sittings, and if I had to choose between watching it again or stabbing a needle in my eye, I’d have to seriously consider. And I’m a total geek, too! Do people really think any of the Dune movies are classics? AIUI, all film incarnations are extremely unpopular. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/146 "2007-11-07T01:33:17Z")
_Stairway to Heaven_. Steaming pile of dingo’s kidneys. ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/147 "2007-11-07T02:12:41Z")
Named a TV classic: **I Love Lucy**. I’m 49 so I’ve seen every episode. Named a SciFi classic: **Stranger in a Strange Land**. Named a movie classic: **Breakfast at Tiffany’s**. Yuck! Boring. Horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/148 "2007-11-07T02:35:29Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] Thomas Wolfe (_Look Homeward Angel_, not _The Right Stuff_ author) is a writer that I would like to like but I can’t. The reason I’d like to is that I love some of his quotes and the way he turns a phrase: [/QUOTE] I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: I’m going to find Thomas Wolfe’s grave and kick it hard. _Look Homeward Angel_ is the only library book I’ve thrown **and** stomped on. I would have set fire to it, but I didn’t want any late fees. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/149 "2007-11-07T02:40:55Z")
I know it’s already been mentioned in this thread, and I don’t mean to be a firebrand, but I’m going to have to agree with whoever included the Bible in this list. In my opinion, a lot of problems between Christianity and other religions, and even different Christian denominations among themselves stem from the style and flow of this book, or rather the lack of it. While I find the history of the bible fascinating, the finished product is a ponderous slog through awkward metaphors and boring genealogies which don’t even add up. In the OT, stories are told multiple times with contradictions and references to oral traditions lost long before the Roman empire came tumbling down. The NT is even worse. Jesus swings wildly between ideological extremes, making extravagant prophecies to the point where I doubt that Nikos Kazantzakis’s portrayal of him as a confused manic depressive is that far off base. As Cecil has pointed out in his column which I’m too lazy to find and link to, the story of Pontius Pilate was almost certainly made up out of whole cloth to suck up to the Romans. And to top it all off, one of the main prophets never even fucking _met_ Jesus. He was just some whacked-out desert hippie who came along years after Jesus had done his thing and wound up putting a whole lot of words into Jesus’s mouth. Imagine having to learn all you could about Woodrow Wilson with no documentary sources other than oral tradition. Now imagine that the storyteller passing down that tradition just _happens_ to be Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme, and you see the problem with veracity. And don’t even get me started on Revelations. Don’t put the mushrooms you picked yourself into the salad, mmmm-kay? Yep, the Bible is pretty much the crappiest, most confused editing and reporting this side of the Village Voice. No wonder everyone’s confused. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/150 "2007-11-07T02:46:08Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach] There is no doubt in my mind that _Firefly_ is one of the most overrated pieces of art in existence. I’m not saying it’s bad, but I am constantly floored how it is brought up like some holy grail of perfection on this board **all the time**.\* [/QUOTE] Ditto. I didn’t hate the show- that would imply I had strong opinions on it one way or the other. It wasn’t that great and it wasn’t terrible (imho) and I don’t understand why it’s such a cult fave. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/151 "2007-11-07T03:16:46Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] You’re talking about _Tom_ Wolfe - Thomas Wolfe is a different guy, from an older generation. I am a fan of Tom Wolfe myself and I think his genius is in the way he makes loathsome, despicable characters come alive, and the way that he explores issues of masculinity and power, and how he relentlessly mocks pop culture. [/QUOTE] And here I liked you… 🙂 I’ve never read Thomas Wolfe–we spent time on Joyce and Faulkner in HS (among others). I “missed” out on Milton, too. superfluous–apparently I can’t spell. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/152 "2007-11-07T03:22:14Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] I don’t understand why it’s such a cult fave. [/QUOTE] Because St. Joss was behind it and we all know he leaves gold bricks in his toilet when he rises. ---
**Author:** ![TripleTee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@TripleTee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TripleTee)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/153 "2007-11-07T04:33:49Z")
[QUOTE=ianzin] You just don’t know what you’re talking about, and it shows. Why do you bother coming to a board that’s supposed to be about fighting ignorance and then start spreading _your_ ignorance around? Maybe if you don’t find some information on MTV or YouTube, and if it’s not on the front of a supermarket ‘news’ weekly, you don’t know about it. For your information, the ‘I’d Like To Buy The World A Coke’ song was not written by a couple of anonymous musicians. It was written by Roger Cook and Roger Greenaway, two of the most successful popular songwriters of the 60s and 70s. Between them they wrote dozens of hit singles for a wide variety of pop singers and groups, and made a huge contribution to popular music. The fact that they wrote the song for the Coke ad, or more accurately adapted one of their own songs and turned it into an ad, was openly acknowledged at the time and widely known. The BBC ‘Horizon’ team even made a documentary called ‘Three Chord Trick’ examining how popular songwriters create ‘catchy’ tunes and songs. Cook and Greenaway were featured in the documentary, as was their work on the Coke ad. In future, try to participate in threads where you actually have the faintest idea what you’re talking about. [/QUOTE] For YOUR information, I am fully aware that Greenaway and Cook wrote the Coke jingle. For YOUR information, not 1 person in 10,000 knows that Greenaway and Cook wrote the Coke jingle. The same cannot be said of the Beatles. In another 50 years, no one will remember Greenaway and Cook. But someone will certainly remember the Beatles. My point, which you apparently missed, is that what the Beatles did was not anything extraordinary. Greenaway and Cook made something just as enduring as any Beatles song. And yet they will not be remembered, and the Beatles will be remembered. People claim that the Beatles’ popularity is enough to prove that they wrote good music. I am pointing out that popularity is not enough to prove that something is good or bad. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/154 "2007-11-07T04:41:26Z")
[QUOTE=TripleTee] My point, which you apparently missed, is that what the Beatles did was not anything extraordinary. Greenaway and Cook made something just as enduring as any Beatles song. And yet they will not be remembered, and the Beatles will be remembered. [/QUOTE] Just as enduring? Really? Then how come I’ve never heard it, but I can probably name 20 Beatles songs off the top of my head? ---
**Author:** ![TripleTee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@TripleTee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TripleTee)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/155 "2007-11-07T05:03:50Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] Just as enduring? Really? Then how come I’ve never heard it, but I can probably name 20 Beatles songs off the top of my head? [/QUOTE] Maybe you don’t watch TV. Maybe you aren’t old enough to have ever seen the Coke commercial. Maybe neither is true, but you never actually saw the commercial. Maybe someone in the room changed the channel when it came on because they were sick of hearing it. I really have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/156 "2007-11-07T05:09:48Z")
[QUOTE=TripleTee] Maybe you don’t watch TV. Maybe you aren’t old enough to have ever seen the Coke commercial. Maybe neither is true, but you never actually saw the commercial. Maybe someone in the room changed the channel when it came on because they were sick of hearing it. I really have no idea. [/QUOTE] I was born in 1986. I have no idea when that particular commercial aired, but the idea that it’s “just as enduring” as the Beatles’ hits is a non-starter since AFAIK neither I nor anyone I know in my age group has ever heard the song. If “enduring” means “the people who were adults when it could be heard still remember it”, well, that says more about the low incidence of Alzheimer’s in people of whatever age group that is, than it does about the artistic merit of that work. ---
**Author:** ![TripleTee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@TripleTee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TripleTee)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/157 "2007-11-07T05:12:25Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] I was born in 1986. I have no idea when that particular commercial aired, but the idea that it’s “just as enduring” as the Beatles’ hits is a non-starter since AFAIK neither I nor anyone I know in my age group has ever heard the song. If “enduring” means “the people who were adults when it could be heard still remember it”, well, that says more about the low incidence of Alzheimer’s in people of whatever age group that is, than it does about the artistic merit of that work. [/QUOTE] No, what it says is that particular commercial has not aired consistently in more than 20 years, and will not be aired again, except in some TV show about old commercials or something similar. Beatles songs are played on the radio every single day. It says absolutely nothing about artistic merit. It says everything about marketing. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/158 "2007-11-07T05:37:39Z")
[QUOTE=TripleTee] People claim that the Beatles’ popularity is enough to prove that they wrote good music. I am pointing out that popularity is not enough to prove that something is good or bad. [/QUOTE] No, popularity is not. But nor do I think that all the critical acclaim and, more importantly, admiration and imitation of The Beatles by _people who make their living making music_ is probably a good sign that there’s something there in it. Band after band, songwriter after songwriter, generation after generation have cited The Beatles as an influence in their music. There music has transcended genres, being used in hip-hop, jazz, classical, bluegrass, synth punk, etc. arrangements. I rather doubt that all these people were brainwashed into believing a mediocre band was great. They were great. And I’m not even a Beatles fanatic. I know very little about the band beyond the music, and I don’t even own a single Beatles CD. But it’s quite obvious to me that they are something special. The closest analogy I have in my life is I have no/little appreciation for the band Husker Du. Yet, band after band that I like, listeners whose opinions I respect (and tastes I share), and critics all seem to agree that this was one of the most important and greatest bands in the American alternative/underground scene of the 80s. And I concede. I’m sure they are right, but for whatever reason, their music just doesn’t resonate with me, and I don’t hear what’s so great about it. But I believe the problem is me. I had the same issue with “Pet Sounds.” Thought it was overrated for the longest time. Just another nice pop record by The Beach Boys, nothing more. Then, one day, after reading the liner notes and listening to it after not hearing it for several years, it was like I heard it for the first time. I don’t know what happened, but it was an epiphany. Suddently, I understood, really understood, the fuss. “Pet Sounds” is my #1 rock record of all time now. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/159 "2007-11-07T06:02:09Z")
Bach, I find him to be predictable and repetetive. _The Bible_ is very repetetive and predictable _the Illiad_ , _Shawshank Redemption_ , the TV show _Becker_ are all fairly predictable Most African and Asian art/German Literature is pretty obvious and repetitive. I never understood all the buzz about _Broom Hilda_ or _Hi and Lois_, both predictable and unfunny. The Grand Canyon, New Orleans food, Sailing, the moon, and Laurel And Hardy are all much less impressive than their reputation and predictable. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2007, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276/160 "2007-11-07T06:34:00Z")
[QUOTE=Bootis] The Grand Canyon, New Orleans food, Sailing, the moon, and Laurel And Hardy are all much less impressive than their reputation and predictable. [/QUOTE] Yeah! That moon, it’s so bloody predictable. All that waxing and waning and waxing and waning. And what does it do then? More waxing! More waning! And very occasionally an eclipse, but even then usually only _partial_. Bastard. I hate it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-considered-classics-but-which-you-think-are-highly-overrated/425276.md?page=9)