# Things that are disturbing about the "Little House" series **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 1, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088 "2014-04-01T15:49:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Juicy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Soylent\_Juicy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Juicy)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/41 "2014-04-02T14:44:08Z")
The one thing I remember about the “Little House” books was when Laura had her first child: the doctor put a cloth over her face, she blacked out, then woke up after the baby was born. I was about 11 when I read the books and I remember asking my mom if that was even possible. Because why would women go through the agony of childbirth if you could just be out cold for it all? At the time I assumed that the author just didn’t want to divulge the gory details. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/42 "2014-04-02T14:55:36Z")
Ooh…in doing some research inspired by this thread, I found out the [real Almonzo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almanzo_Wilder) was much more handsome than Dean Butler (who played him in the TV series). More of a young Val Kilmer type… ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/43 "2014-04-02T15:08:56Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > To be fair, Laura and Pa are presented as being intrigued by the Indians and not at all subscribing to the general philosophy of Ma (and I believe Mary). True, but Pa didn’t see anything wrong with squatting on the reservation where he had no right to be. He figured the native Americans would be kicked out before the whites … A pretty safe gamble that in true Pa fashion he managed to lose. As for Almanzo, it’s suggested several times that Laura only likes him for his handsome pair of Morgan horses (ie, his relative wealth and showiness). I never got the feeling Almonzo was stalky… If anything Laura comes off as slightly grasping (though who could blame her). ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/44 "2014-04-02T15:19:40Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I got a kind of a weird vibe in the book in which Laura got a job teaching at a town an awkward distance from her family… she went several months without seeing her family, and then in the dead of winter, Almanzo just showed up on her doorstep one night with one of his Morgan horses hitched to a sleigh; she threw some things in a bag, put on her warmest clothes, and headed off into the night with him. Laura’s living situation was miserable and Almanzo knew it, so he went to a lot of trouble to go get her every weekend and bring her home. Even after she feels compelled to tell him that she’s not interested in him romantically, but only wants the ride home. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/45 "2014-04-02T15:40:30Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > …They are shocked are horrified that the girls are letting their father see them in their nightdresses! They shame them and tell them to go get dressed if they want to greet their father… Interesting social observation, and an indication that “modesty” doesn’t always mean only “covering stuff up”, but has broader fashion-related nuances. A quick Google search for “little house on the prairie nightgown” turned up [this](http://ourgrandmascloset.net/nightgown.htm) from a historical costume shop. Is that really immodest for walking around the house? What did they think men would think when they saw children like this? ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/46 "2014-04-02T15:50:22Z")
This is disturbing in a different way, but it always horrified me that at the end of the Long Winter, they are going to EAT A TURKEY that has been sitting in a BARREL for MONTHS. This is in the Christmas barrel that can’t get through due to weather. Maybe it was packed in salt and for a lot of that time, it was frozen solid. But my modern self cannot get over the idea of eating poultry that’s been sitting around heaven-knows-where. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/47 "2014-04-02T15:55:24Z")
At that point they probably would have eaten the barrel, too. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/48 "2014-04-02T15:59:59Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Interesting social observation, and an indication that “modesty” doesn’t always mean only “covering stuff up”, but has broader fashion-related nuances. > > A quick Google search for “little house on the prairie nightgown” turned up [this](http://ourgrandmascloset.net/nightgown.htm) from a historical costume shop. Is that really immodest for walking around the house? What did they think men would think when they saw children like this? Oh man, where’s the fapping smiley when I need it? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/49 "2014-04-02T16:02:12Z")
Dunno, the turkey seemed like a real “natures fridge” type situation. Safe as houses. When would it have had a chance to get above 40 degrees when there were seven months of near continuous snow? They even state the turkey dinner will be in two days, ie, after the turkey thaws. It was still hard-frozen in the barrel. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/50 "2014-04-02T16:08:52Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Dunno, the turkey seemed like a real “natures fridge” type situation. Safe as houses. When would it have had a chance to get above 40 degrees when there were seven months of near continuous snow? > > They even state the turkey dinner will be in two days, ie, after the turkey thaws. It was still hard-frozen in the barrel. I’m sure they ate more questionable things (by today’s standards) and survived just fine. I picture the barrel, though, on its slow journey with lots of stops, occasionally hitting a higher temp, thawing just a little, and then re-freezing. Several times. Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/51 "2014-04-02T16:12:06Z")
> [@Soylent\_Juicy](#): > > The one thing I remember about the “Little House” books was when Laura had her first child: the doctor put a cloth over her face, she blacked out, then woke up after the baby was born. > > I was about 11 when I read the books and I remember asking my mom if that was even possible. Because why would women go through the agony of childbirth if you could just be out cold for it all? At the time I assumed that the author just didn’t want to divulge the gory details. That was common through the 1960s - I am the last of four children and my mother had to fight with the doctors NOT to be put under general anesthesia for the birth. ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/52 "2014-04-02T16:26:03Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > My parents let me read the first four books when I was 6-7 but wanted me to wait on the later ones until I was a little bit older. The opening scenes of _By the Shores of Silver Lake_ where they’re all half-dead, Mary has just gone blind, and the family is totally broke are quite heavy. And then Jack the dog dies. Very gloomy opening. “Laura knew then that she was not a little girl anymore. Now she was alone; she must take care of herself.” She’s 12. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/53 "2014-04-02T17:11:42Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > TA pretty safe gamble that **in true Pa fashion** he managed to lose. Yeah, Charles Ingalls did manage to fail at pretty much everything he did, didn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/54 "2014-04-02T18:38:11Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > True, but Pa didn’t see anything wrong with squatting on the reservation where he had no right to be. He figured the native Americans would be kicked out before the whites … Right, which is why I said that Pa and Laura aren’t winning any prizes from twenty-first century diversity committees\*, only that they had a different perspective from the Indians-are-horrible attitude exemplified by Ma and Mary. \*In the first edition of the book, Laura-as-author began the story by writing (somewhere on page 1) “The land was empty. No people, only Indians.” Someone or someones complained–as well they should–the editor wrote to Laura to see if she would approve a change (to “No white people, only Indians” I believe), and Laura promptly agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/55 "2014-04-02T19:45:21Z")
I’ve always thought it interesting that when Almonzo proposes to Laura, she agrees on two conditions. The first I think is a kick at her mother because she says she won’t use the traditional marriage vows to obey her husband. I think that is saying that she won’t be as submissive as Ma has always been. The second I think is a kick at her father in that she says she won’t be married to a farmer. She’s obviously sick of the unstable life she’s lead with her father, being dependent on weather, pests, and all of the backbreaking work to try to raise a decent crop. But then later she becomes somewhat resentful of Almonzo, because he buys fancy buggy horses when they already have practical plow horses. She adds some sarcastic comments like, “I thought this was a waste of money, but he’s the husband so _of course_ he’s right.” ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/56 "2014-04-02T21:14:55Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Interesting social observation, and an indication that “modesty” doesn’t always mean only “covering stuff up”, but has broader fashion-related nuances. > > A quick Google search for “little house on the prairie nightgown” turned up [this](http://ourgrandmascloset.net/nightgown.htm) from a historical costume shop. Is that really immodest for walking around the house? What did they think men would think when they saw children like this? Because it is perilously close to underwear, actually. It commonly would have been worn with a robe/dressing gown over it. In most cases, unless it was actually late spring, summer or early fall it would be too cold in the cabin to go around without something over the nightgown, banked fires don’t throw off too much heat. There was a reason that you wore a chemise, an undergown, a gown and frequently an overgown, vest or shawl - much of the past 10 000 years we spent in an ice age without central heating. We have been very lucky over the past 25 or so years to be in a warm spell. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/57 "2014-04-02T21:39:02Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Because it is perilously close to underwear, actually. I can add that men’s shirts were largely considered to be underwear as well; if you were serving in the military, you would **never** have appeared in public without a uniform jacket over your shirt; even if you were on a work detail, you would have worn a fatigue frock over it. Civilians wore at least waistcoasts to cover their torsos, and wouldn’t have been fully dressed without a jacket or frock coat. And a well-dressed man always had a stock or some other neckpiece over his throat. ---
**Author:** ![Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Brynhildr\_Budladottir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynhildr_Budladottir)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/58 "2014-04-02T22:47:15Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Because it is perilously close to underwear, actually. It commonly would have been worn with a robe/dressing gown over it. In most cases, unless it was actually late spring, summer or early fall it would be too cold in the cabin to go around without something over the nightgown, banked fires don’t throw off too much heat. There was a reason that you wore a chemise, an undergown, a gown and frequently an overgown, vest or shawl - much of the past 10 000 years we spent in an ice age without central heating. We have been very lucky over the past 25 or so years to be in a warm spell. I’ve seen pictures of kids in Australia around the same period, dressed in pretty much the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Tara57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@Tara57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tara57)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/59 "2014-04-02T23:35:19Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I got a kind of a weird vibe in the book in which Laura got a job teaching at a town an awkward distance from her family… she went several months without seeing her family, and then in the dead of winter, Almanzo just showed up on her doorstep one night with one of his Morgan horses hitched to a sleigh; she threw some things in a bag, put on her warmest clothes, and headed off into the night with him. > > Kind of a weird courtship, since I think that was the first time they were alone together, or even spoke to each other. It’s been a few decades, so I might have the timeline wrong, but still… kind of stalker-ish. In the books, Laura and Almanzo met each other in The Long Winter and knew each other as adult homesteader and schoolgirl. He walked her home from church a few times in Little Town on the Prairie, the book before These Happy Golden Years, in which he drove her to and from her school and they courted and married. Pa get criticized for sexist behavior, but I have always been impressed that he stopped moving the family once they settled in By The Shores of Silver Lake because he promised Ma the girls would go to school, even though he and Laura longed to keep moving west. A promise to the mother to educate the daughters seems progressive for the time, as was the importance of Mary’s attendance at the college for the blind. Rereading the books as an adult is very eye-opening. The life seemed like an exciting adventure when I was young. Now I identify with the adults in the story and realize just how difficult was their life. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088/60 "2014-04-03T00:09:17Z")
> [@Tara57](#): > > In the books, Laura and Almanzo met each other in The Long Winter and knew each other as adult homesteader and schoolgirl. He walked her home from church a few times in Little Town on the Prairie, the book before These Happy Golden Years, in which he drove her to and from her school and they courted and married. ah, that makes much more sense. Not so much with “hey, it’s that guy I knew when I was eight showing up in the middle of the night…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-are-disturbing-about-the-little-house-series/685088.md?page=4)