# Things that bother me about M asterisk A asterisk S asterisk H (the TV show)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Tags:** tv-shows-scripted
**Created:** [June 4, 2021, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583 "2021-06-04T02:10:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/81 "2021-06-05T04:32:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Mostly in older films and TV shows, they did not show that much smoking. Look at The Longest day.
I watch _a lot_ of old movies and TV shows, and smoking was ubiquitous up until ca. 1970, when the Surgeon General’s report started to have an impact. Even Rob and Laura Petrie lit up every now and then. Sgt Saunders and the squad in _ **Combat!** _ would light up whenever they took five. And every member of the IMF had a cigarette in their hand as they planned the next mission.
Going back to the '40s, one of he few joys in the life of Lana Turner’s husband in _ **The Postman Always Rings Twice** _ was having a smoke while he read the paper in the evening. Fred MacMurray and Barbara Stanwyck lit up as they plotted her husband’s murder in _ **Double Indemnity** _.
And those are just some examples off the top of my head.
_ **The Longest Day** _ may be an anomaly simply because the troops didn’t have time for a smoke while they were invading Normandy. But I remember the movie ended with Richard Burton and an American GI sharing a smoke.
(Eisenhower, BTW, was a heavy smoker. Not showing him with a cancer stick in his hand was definitely a historical inaccuracy.)
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/82 "2021-06-05T04:40:15Z")
Yes. But for an example- _The Glenn Miller Story_ . A few guys smoking in the background in many scenes. Miller being handed a congratulator cigar- but not lighting it up. Chummy does have a cig in his hand sometimes.
Yes, there was a very smokey bar scene, with lots of smoking but the point there was that Helen was not used to so much noise and smoke and had to get out.
Very few of the modern smoking scene, where the camera lingers lovingly on the cig being lit up and each puff.
> [@terentii](#):
>
> (Eisenhower, BTW, was a heavy smoker. Not showing him with a cancer stick in his hand was definitely a historical inaccuracy.)
And they do not show many scenes of soldiers taking a piss or a shit, either, do they, but I guarantee you they did. Or rubbing one off, etc.
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### Author:  [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/83 "2021-06-05T04:47:35Z")
> [@solost](#):
>
> > [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#):
> >
> > The haircuts. Hawkeye mostly, but plenty of minor, background soldiers sport hair that was in fashion during my high school days of the 1970s
>
> See also: The Waltons. Most of of the males on the show (who still had hair) had glorious 70s mop tops. I doubt that would’ve been acceptable in 30s rural Virginia. But who knows, maybe that was the style at the time.
I think the worst offender for anachronistic hair has to be Little House on the Prairie–especially Pa Ingalls and his frontier water perm, and Almanzo’s big Beatles mop-top. It’s funny–the women and girls had relatively period-appropriate hair (or at least it looked like it) but the boys and men were Seventies extravaganzas.
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### Author:  [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/84 "2021-06-05T04:48:09Z")
Come on, people. Enough with the hair complaints. Though the setting is Korea, in both the movie and the film, producers wanted to make a parallel between the war in Vietnam and the war in Korea.
[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M*A*S*H_(film)): " Although the Korean War is the film’s storyline setting, the subtext is the Vietnam War— a current event at the time the film was made."
One way they blurred the line was by making haircuts and styles (and women’s makeup) typical of the 70s.
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### Author:  [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/85 "2021-06-05T04:50:39Z")
Another interesting case is the original _ **Hawaii Five-O** _ (1968). Steve, Chin, Kono, Ben and all of the HPD officers _never_ smoked, but Danny did on occasion in the first couple of years. By 1972, he had kicked the habit as well
In _ **The Day the Earth Stood Still** _, I laughed out loud when the two US Army physicians lit up after examining Klaatu. Yes, it made them look like a couple of witch doctors all right!
Watching Barbara Bain light up while she seduces Emil Scarbeck et al. on _ **Mission: Impossible** _ has always made me go “Yeccch!” 🤮 I’ve never understood why everybody thought women who smoked were so sexy and sophisticated.
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### Author:  [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/86 "2021-06-05T04:55:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> And they do not show many scenes of soldiers taking a piss or a shit, either, do they, but I guarantee you they did. Or rubbing one off, etc.
I once read somewhere that GIs complained there wasn’t enough privacy for them to polish the helmet even in the shower. 😣
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### Author:  [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/87 "2021-06-05T12:56:33Z")
> [@gdave](#):
>
> > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#):
> >
> > Aside from the hair, the film had what I thought was another glaring anachronism - a black neurosurgeon, Dr. Oliver Wendell Jones. The military had only just been integrated four years earlier - black cooks and latrine-diggers, sure, but no way they’d commission an African-American doctor, right?
>
> I realize you fought your own ignorance on that, but there a couple of other problems with your supposition.
>
> 1. Most of the doctors on the show were draftees. A local draft board might collude to exclude a Black doctor because they didn’t want him operating on White boys, but if an M.D. were drafted, he’d get a direct commission in the Medical Corps, regardless of race.
>
> 2. That would have been true _before integration_. A lot of people get confused about this. Even before Truman desegregated the armed forces, there were Black officers, and Black Army doctors (and Black combat infantry, another one a lot of people seem to get confused about). There were Black Soldiers in most of the specialties - it’s just that they had to serve in segregated Black units, and there was a glass ceiling on their promotions. The first Black medical officer in the U.S. Army, by the way, was [Alexander Thomas Augusta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Thomas_Augusta), who received his commission in _1863_
Yes, I knew there were segregated black units in the military, including combat troops. (Hey, I saw _Glory_!) I was surprised to find an African-American surgeon in an integrated MASH.
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#):
>
> Sorry, nitpick: Dr. Oliver **Harmon** Jones (Movie and TV).
Thanks. I wasn’t sure about that, because I remembered the _Bloom County_ character. But I didn’t want to use his racist nickname from the movie, so I relied on the paper I cited about Dr. Blount. Which got it wrong.
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### Author:  [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/88 "2021-06-05T14:20:58Z")
As long as we’re 'fessing up, I don’t remember Dr. Jones ever being referred to by his whole name in the TV series – IMDb _says_ his TV middle name is _Harmon_ but how often are _they_ right? Your
source being wrong is unforgivable and I’d hunt him down and make him fix it. And then credit the SDMB – “Your source for all useless nollij.”
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### Author:  [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/89 "2021-06-05T14:34:03Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#):
>
> As long as we’re 'fessing up, I don’t remember Dr. Jones ever being referred to by his whole name in the TV series – IMDb _says_ his TV middle name is _Harmon_ but how often are _they_ right?
Don’t some writers create biographies for their characters to help them (writers) keep from contradicting themselves later etc.? It could be that this character was just sort never took off but they had already worked up the bio.
Radar did smoke in one episode that I remember…it was like a spy signal in the night darkness to others, like they were setting up Frank or something. Just a few puffs.
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### Author:  [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/90 "2021-06-05T14:42:02Z")
**Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle** hinted at something that I’d bet was more likely: everyone (with a few exceptions) was referred to by nick-name; Dr. Jones’s would be troublesome. Plus, a third doctor (the series already excised Duke Forrest from the novel/film) would interfere with the Hawk/Trap dynamic. He never stood a chance.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/91 "2021-06-05T15:35:52Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#):
>
> Don’t some writers create biographies for their characters to help them (writers) keep from contradicting themselves later etc.?
Definitely – the term “series bible” or “show bible” refers to a document where details about the characters (and important events which transpire over the course of the series) are maintained, to ensure consistency.
It would not surprise me to learn that, while MASH had a bible, it was either skimpy, or not adhered to the way it would be on a modern TV series. I mean, we’re talking about a series where they established that Henry was married, but then _changed the name of his wife_ – she was “Mildred” in the first season, and then “Lorraine” from then on.
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### Author:  [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/92 "2021-06-05T16:17:12Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#):
>
> I mean, we’re talking about a series where they established that Henry was married, but then _changed the name of his wife_ – she was “Mildred” in the first season, and then “Lorraine” from then on.
[Wikipedia confirmation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M*A*S*H_characters#Henry_Blake)
I’m trying to remember him referencing her as Mildred…Lorraine I remember. It seems like actors would get into their roles and catch these things, but maybe McLean Stevenson didn’t?
Of course Blake’s replacement (Potter) was married to Mildred so you remember hearing it but there’s confusion about who said it.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/93 "2021-06-05T16:35:52Z")
> [@nelliebly](#):
>
> Come on, people. Enough with the hair complaints. Though the setting is Korea, in both the movie and the film, producers wanted to make a parallel between the war in Vietnam and the war in Korea.
>
> [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M*A*S*H_(film)): " Although the Korean War is the film’s storyline setting, the subtext is the Vietnam War— a current event at the time the film was made."
>
> One way they blurred the line was by making haircuts and styles (and women’s makeup) typical of the 70s.
The hair was too long for Vietnam. Soldier’s hair in Vietnam was longer than WWII and and Korea but it certainly wasn’t what it was in MASH. In the Army in Germany in the 80s we were allowed to grow our hair much more than a high and tight as long as it was still in regulations but not close to MASH. Some of them had Civil War hair.
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### Author:  [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/94 "2021-06-05T16:37:39Z")
I wonder what his idea of a futuristic haircut was?
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/95 "2021-06-05T16:50:12Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#):
>
> Radar did smoke in one episode that I remember…it was like a spy signal in the night darkness to others, like they were setting up Frank or something. Just a few puffs.
First season Radar liked his cigars. Episode 4 had a scene where General Barker walked into Henry’s office and found Radar at Henry’s desk, feet up, smoking a cigar and sipping Henry’s brandy. Out of a snifter no less!
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### Author:  [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/96 "2021-06-05T16:58:06Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#):
>
> For what it’s worth, Richard Hornberger, the real life surgeon that Hawkeye was based on, also had a lot of issues with the show, especially the anti-war tone of the show.
Not worth much. He sold the rights to the book, which means the producers, et al, could do whatever they wanted with it. He made a poor deal money-wise, but them’s the breaks.
I liked the show a lot, other than the Klinger character. My only real dislike is Alda’s voice, which always comes across as whiny to me in every role I’ve seen him in.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/97 "2021-06-05T17:10:12Z")
Klinger was supposed to be a one off character but they decided to make him a regular. The gimmick wore thin but he had his moments.
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/98 "2021-06-05T18:29:34Z")
The Klinger character may have been inspired by a M \* A \* S \* H doctor who dressed as Marilyn Monroe one Halloween.
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### Author:  [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/99 "2021-06-05T19:53:41Z")
I see I should have been clearer:
They blurred the line by making haircuts and styles (and women’s makeup) typical of 1970s civilians.
It’d have made no sense try to blur that line via military haircuts, which didn’t change from the Korean War to the war in Vietnam.
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2021, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/100 "2021-06-05T20:07:06Z")
I don’t think the haircuts were intended to reflect a parallel to Vietnam; it was just a characteristic of a militarily slipshod outfit.
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