# Things that bother me about M asterisk A asterisk S asterisk H (the TV show)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Tags:** tv-shows-scripted
**Created:** [June 4, 2021, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583 "2021-06-04T02:10:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2021, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/141 "2021-06-07T00:23:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> From what I remember, Frank was not a bad surgeon, but not well suited to the quick and dirty meatball surgery the MASH did.
It did take him double the normal time to get through medical school.
They were inconsistent, though. I think a path towards him becoming a nicer guy(like Charles got) would have been great, but they committed too much to him being a weasel.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2021, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/142 "2021-06-07T00:37:32Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#):
>
> It did take him double the normal time to get through medical school.
And that was with him buying the exam answers!
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### Author:  [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/143 "2021-06-07T00:42:44Z")
That’s a better description of Winchester. Potter was constantly telling him to move faster, but he couldn’t, at least not at first. He was always complaining that his surgical skills were being degraded by the unit’s demands to “bring 'em in and get 'em out again, ASAP.”
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2021, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/144 "2021-06-07T02:02:10Z")
Hmm, maybe I got the two confused.
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### Author:  [@janis\_and\_c0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janis_and_c0)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2021, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/145 "2021-06-07T11:49:41Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#):
>
> The Klinger character may have been inspired by a M \* A \* S \* H doctor who dressed as Marilyn Monroe one Halloween.
Nope. he was inspired by comedian Lenny Bruce, who reportedly cross as a way to get out of the service.
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2021, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/146 "2021-06-07T13:35:15Z")
I have a cite:
> [@Embarassingly obvious question about M\*A\*S\*H](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embarassingly-obvious-question-about-m-a-s-h/760253/29):
>
> Max Klinger may have spawned from one of the stories the pair related to co-creator Gene Reynolds, that of an otherwise shy and straight-laced doctor named Hall [who dressed up one Halloween as Marilyn Monroe](https://www.awesomestories.com/images/user/1b41937cdb.jpg).
> **[Rowdy medical unit inspired 'M\*A\*S\*H'](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/07/01/korean-war-inspired-mash/2480507/)**
>
> Indiana couple served on Korean War medical unit that helped inspire 'M\*A\*S\*H.'
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### Author:  [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2021, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/147 "2021-06-07T13:43:37Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#):
>
> **Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle** hinted at something that I’d bet was more likely: everyone (with a few exceptions) was referred to by nick-name; Dr. Jones’s would be troublesome. Plus, a third doctor (the series already excised Duke Forrest from the novel/film) would interfere with the Hawk/Trap dynamic. He never stood a chance
In the movie, Dr. Jones threw the javelin on his college track team; that was the _ostensible_ source of his nickname.
> [@](#):
>
> Hawkeye was born in Vermont, later he was born in Crabapple Cove, Maine. Not a bad trick.
It was a complicated delivery.
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### Author:  [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/148 "2021-06-07T17:26:36Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> Don’t worry about the appalling lack of enough surgeons for more than one shift, because they don’t have a single anesthesiologist. Well they used to, but he vaporized. I guess they just cut them open without. It’s OK, they’re mercifully passed out already. I mean, the patients.
Reading this thread, I’m reminded of a book I enjoyed a few years back, _MASH, An Army Surgeon in Korea_, written bu a surgeon from the 8076th MASH. Otto Apel. He apparently occasionally consulted with the MASH scriptwriters, and a couple of the stories from his book were clearly seeds for episodes I remember.
I found it on my Kindle, and while I’m not going to re-read it now, there are a couple things I remember well enough to search for.
There was not more than one shift according to him, A MASH unit had two anesthesiologists, and more notably, only three surgeons. I remember him speaking of many occasions where he worked well more than 24 hours straight with only minimal breaks, including when he first reported to the unit and went straight into surgery for close to two days.
> At noon the mess hall sent lunch to the five-gallon can. I do not remember what it was, but by that time it made no difference. We slugged it down and wished for more. None of us had showered, so we all smelled like billy goats. I could hardly keep my eyes open.
>
> “Drink more coffee,” Major Coleman said.
>
> “When’s our shift over?” I asked.
>
> He smiled. “When the last litter comes through that tent flap back there.”
>
> I glanced at the tent flap that led to the pre-op tent.
>
> He patted my shoulder. “That could be days from now.”
>
> “Are we it?”
>
> “We’re it,” he said. “There are three surgeons here, and you see every one of them in this tent.”
>
> “We don’t take a break?” I asked.
>
> “If you need it,” he said. “Sit down here by the five-gallon can. But remember, while you’re napping there are men dying out there on litters waiting for you to get up from your nap.”
He also talks at length about the relaxed military standards of the unit. As mentioned upthread I think, the doctors, surgeons and other medical staff drafted into service not only did not particularly want to be in the Army in the first place, they got almost no military training whatsoever. They did not feel like they were part of the Army, and there was a giant gulf between them and the skeleton Army medical service left after the drawdowns post WWII.
The surgeons coming in from the US had little respect for what they say as antiquated medical standards as documented in Army procedures manuals. Apel and his team apparently kept getting reprimanded for sending patients to rehab hospitals that they had performed arterial grafting techniques on. The standard per the Army was to amputate in those situations. So they apparently sourced some of their own equipment and cross trained other MASH units on ‘modern’ techniques and let the camp COs deflect the reprimands.
The other thing I recall being surprised about, counter to the TV series, is that the medical staff only served in the MASH units for about 8 months before rotating back home to complete their service. Apel volunteered for a 4 month extension, much to his own surprise, making him the ‘old man’ of the team that was deployed to the 8076 for a full year.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/149 "2021-06-07T18:24:39Z")
According to this article a combat tour for front line troops in Korea was 9 to 12 months. So that tracks pretty close to what they made the doctors do. So the cast of MASH should be saluted for serving at the front for 11 years.
> **[Korean War Educator: Topics - VFW Magazine Articles](http://www.koreanwar-educator.org/topics/vfw/p_koreas_invisible_veterans.htm)**
>
> Korean War Educator is a joint effort of civilians and veterans who are determined to establish and maintain a medium in which the general public can learn more about the Korean War.
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### Author:  [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/150 "2021-06-07T18:46:03Z")
…Or even three.
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### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2021, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/151 "2021-06-07T23:10:46Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> …they don’t have a single anesthesiologist.
Or apparently, a single barber.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/152 "2021-06-08T00:25:10Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> Don’t worry about the appalling lack of enough surgeons for more than one shift, because they don’t have a single anesthesiologist.
So what?
There were supposedly a whole lot of detectives assigned to the 12th Precinct in _Barney Miller_ [(look at the sign-in board in the background)](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/abe_vigoda.jpg?w=681&h=383&crop=1) but you never saw more than four of them, plus the Captain.
_WKRP in Cincinnati_ ran 24/7, but only ever mentioned having four disc jockeys.
_Cheers_ was open from sometime before noon until some time after midnight, but got by on two bartenders and one or two waitresses.
The WJM-TV newsroom in _Mary Tyler Moore_ had three executives, one anchor and no reporters.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2021, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/153 "2021-06-08T06:17:01Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#):
>
> So what?
But they DID have an anesthesiologist. He had lines and everything. They just sent him to the attic with Chuck Cunninghamin the first season.
WKRP at least gave lip service to the other DJs.
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### Author:  [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2021, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/154 "2021-06-08T07:21:52Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> WKRP at least gave lip service to the other DJs.
Trying to remember here. There was Dr. Johnny Fever, the morning guy (0600-1000?); Venus Flytrap, the evening guy (1900-2400?); Rex Earhart, the midday guy (1000-1500?); and Moss Steiger, the overnight guy (2400-0600). All except Moss Steiger were seen at least once. Which leaves the Afternoon Drive guy (1500-1900?), that we never heard of.
Was the Afternoon Drive guy ever mentioned or named?
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### Author:  [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2021, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/155 "2021-06-08T09:37:42Z")
Well, the sign-in board on Barney Miller at least acknowledged that others use the room. I think there has even been mention of the night shift.
(although I do remember the squad room being vandalized overnight in one episode, don’t recall if anyone brought up where the night shift was during the vandalization)
mmm
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### Author:  [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2021, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/156 "2021-06-08T12:12:31Z")
> [@nelliebly](#):
>
> Come on, people. Enough with the hair complaints. Though the setting is Korea, in both the movie and the film, producers wanted to make a parallel between the war in Vietnam and the war in Korea.
The thread title is “Things that bother me…” The hair bothered me. I spent 11 years on active duty and uniform inaccuracies pull me out of the story, even silly stories like [Down Periscope.](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116130/) The intent of the producers/directors may be valid, but it still bothers me. _\< shrug \>_
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2021, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/157 "2021-06-08T13:14:20Z")
> [@Spoons](#):
>
> Was the Afternoon Drive guy ever mentioned or named?
“Dean the Dream” (never seen, from what I remember) had the afternoon drive time shift.
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### Author:  [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2021, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/158 "2021-06-08T14:06:22Z")
I read the book as well. You’re right, they had no shifts. Though I think they did usually know when the big bunches of wounded would be coming through, as the Army would have let them know if at all possible. So not much need for Radar in that regard!
They did have other non-surgical doctors on staff. The surgeons were sometimes shown doing non-surgical care; that likely would have been done by other doctors. And there was a dentist, which was mentioned a few times.
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2021, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/159 "2021-06-08T14:15:51Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#):
>
> The thread title is “Things that bother me…” The hair bothered me. I spent 11 years on active duty and uniform inaccuracies pull me out of the story, even silly stories like [Down Periscope.](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116130/) The intent of the producers/directors may be valid, but it still bothers me. _\< shrug \>_
It can be hard to enjoy movies or TV shows that are set in the industry where you work, or are about a hobby that you enjoy, as most of them take liberties around their settings. Those liberties and inaccuracies go over the heads of most viewers, but it can totally take you, as an expert, out of the story because the inaccuracy is so glaring. (FWIW, I have the same issue with anything set at an advertising agency. 🙂 )
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### Author:  [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-about-m-asterisk-a-asterisk-s-asterisk-h-the-tv-show/943583/160 "2021-06-08T14:21:44Z")
Asymmetric beards?
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