# Things That Bother Me in Science Fiction Movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [October 24, 2023, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001 "2023-10-24T08:55:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/341 "2023-11-16T03:20:20Z")
Superman and the Flash, having a race, running faster than sound, are able to talk to each other. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/342 "2023-11-16T03:22:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The officers certainly have their own cabin, but lower decks? I believe various semi-canon sources like the Technical manuals say that the lowest ranking crew share two to a dorm room. The _Defiant_ was unusual in that the ratings slept in barracks. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/343 "2023-11-16T13:09:13Z")
And how is the Atom able to breathe when he shrinks smaller than oxygen atoms? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/344 "2023-11-16T13:24:35Z")
I recall a panel from a Silver Age comic showing the Atom saying “inside this oxygen atom, I can breathe.” Which almost made my head explode. It shows the fantasy nature of the whole concept. As with MST3K, “I say to myself it’s just a show; I should really just relax.” Otherwise I’d be wondering how he could even _see_ the atom, when both he and the atom are smaller than the wavelength of visible light. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/345 "2023-11-16T13:51:33Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > And how is the Atom able to breathe when he shrinks smaller than oxygen atoms? How is he able to see atoms, and sub-atomic particles, when they are smaller than light waves? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/346 "2023-11-16T14:27:55Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > How is he able to see atoms, and sub-atomic particles, when they are smaller than light waves? Am I similarly invisible, despite being much larger than a wavelength of light? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/347 "2023-11-16T14:31:31Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > The officers certainly have their own cabin, but lower decks? > > According to every cite I’ve seen, yes. > > Remember, there were no “enlisted man” types in the 23rd century. Even the guys in the jumpsuits walking the halls were officers. But Starfleet does have enlisted personnel (at least in The Next Generation onward). Miles O’Brien was head of engineering on DS9 as a chief petty officer (NCO). Which seems odd to me, but that was more of a backwater space station than a true Federation ship like the Enterprise. So where do these enlisted come from? Like do they sign up with a Starfleet recruiter at the local strip mall like they were joining the Army and then go through space boot camp? And are there other paths to officer besides joining Starfleet (which seems to be portrayed as a highly competitive military/science academy equivalent to Annapolis meets MIT or CalTech). Like is there a Starfleet ROTC program? That reminds me. Another thing that bothers me is “aliens putting Earth on trial”. You know, usually some variation of “prove humanities worthiness or we’ll obliterate your planet.” Well…we generally don’t go around obliterating planets for one. At least not intentionally. Star Trek: TNG kicked that off in the very first episode with Q’s trial of the Enterprise crew. Right, because Q later proved to be a great example of using your power responsibly (although I would imagine Q put humanity on trial simply because it amused him). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/348 "2023-11-16T14:42:20Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > That reminds me. Another thing that bothers me is “aliens putting Earth on trial”. You know, usually some variation of “prove humanities worthiness or we’ll obliterate your planet.” Bothers me, too. I’ve seen it in other places. The oldest one I know of is Heinlein’s juvenile _Have Space Suit Will Travel_. But it’s in the background of _Stranger in a Strange Land_, too. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/349 "2023-11-16T14:58:37Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Miles O’Brien was head of engineering on DS9 as a chief petty officer (NCO). O’Brien is an interesting case. He started out an ensign. (with no known name). He was called “transporter chief”, but he had officer pips. Somewhere along the way, _after_ he got a name, TPTB decided he wasn’t just a chief, but a Chief. Then I think it was on DS9 they had him saying old platitudes like “I’m not an officer, I work for a living”, which was old and moldy in the Napoleonic Era. So, I guess that means, “in canon” there are enlisted people. One, at least. It makes no damn sense! If he’s “Chief engineering officer”, he needs to be an officer, dammit! ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/350 "2023-11-16T15:01:52Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Am I similarly invisible, despite being much larger than a wavelength of light? sorry, my interociter is broken. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/351 "2023-11-16T15:05:40Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > How is he able to see atoms, and sub-atomic particles, when they are smaller than light waves? In any sci-fi situation where a human can shrink and embiggen again, there are only two ways to accomplish that AFAIK, and both have their own issues. Is mass reduced? If so, what mechanism can remove 99% or so of a person’s mass, while keeping the basic structure of a living human intact? Not to mention adding the mass back somehow. Is the space inside the person’s atoms compressed? If so, and the tiny human’s mass is preserved, they become super-dense, and likely sink into any surface they tried to stand upon. I don’t think a human has enough mass to turn into a tiny black hole at a small enough size, but they’d have some big (heh) problems. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/352 "2023-11-16T15:07:07Z")
At some point, the civilians on earth really have to wonder if Starfleet is worth the trouble. They’re like a kid bringing home a puppy (can I keep him?) except the puppy is really Godzilla, and he’s pissed! How many times has Starfleet “brought the puppy home” and almost destroyed humanity? V’ger, Borg, Dominion, Q, Xindi… There has been some posts here that Starfleet isn’t really the “best and brightest”, but is really the misfits and arrested development cases. It’s a giant Boy Scout jamboree. It’s cosplay, except that the Starfleeters don’t _know_ they’re playing. As long as they’re “out there”, they can’t cause trouble at home. I sort of enjoy that idea, but the first paragraph proves it can’t be true. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/353 "2023-11-16T15:11:44Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > So where do these enlisted come from? Like do they sign up with a Starfleet recruiter at the local strip mall like they were joining the Army and then go through space boot camp? _“I was eighteen, and eager. The last thing I wanted to do was spend four years sitting in classrooms. I wanted to be out there, travelling the stars. I didn’t want to wait for anything.”_ —an enlisted guy in Starfleet, giving his backstory in THE DRUMHEAD. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/354 "2023-11-16T15:14:53Z")
He can shrink small enough to land on entire planets smaller than any sub-atomic particle. Those planets have air, water, food, and little itty bitty people. The Atom has an advantage on those worlds because not only can he get even smaller than the itty-bitty people, he can also grow and be a giant among them as well. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/355 "2023-11-16T15:15:28Z")
Starfleet definitely had enlisted ranks. They even had Mustangs (joined as enlisted and progressed to officer). Janice Rand was a Petty Officer on TOS, Chief Petty Officer in Star Trek, The Motion Picture, and by Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country she was a Lt. JG. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/356 "2023-11-16T15:36:09Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > Janice Rand was a Petty Officer on TOS Was she? I don’t recall her ever being called anything but “Yeoman” (which is a rating, not a rank). Despite Roddenberry supposedly saying that everyone on the Enterprise was an officer, TOS had all those anonymous guys wandering around called “crewman,” who I always assumed to be enlisted folks. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/357 "2023-11-16T16:07:09Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I believe various semi-canon sources like the Technical manuals say that the lowest ranking crew share two to a dorm room. The _Defiant_ was unusual in that the ratings slept in barracks. On **Lower Decks** ensigns on California Class ships sleep in bunks in hallways. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/358 "2023-11-16T16:12:44Z")
Never mind, got my shrinking heroes confused. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/359 "2023-11-16T16:25:02Z")
Antman? He’s making a comeback thanks to the movies. Back in the day I wanted to see both him an the Atom more often but they both got pushed aside for bigger attractions. Both of them had the ability to change their mass at will. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001/360 "2023-11-16T16:27:44Z")
Yeah, I was thinking Antman, who can get bigger than a human as well as smaller. I don’t really know the Atom that well, but a quick Google indicated that the current incarnation, at least, only gets smaller. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bother-me-in-science-fiction-movies/992001.md?page=19)