# Things that bug you about Star Trek **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 13, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109 "2017-03-13T19:08:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/81 "2017-03-14T16:23:01Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > The idea of shuttlecrafts hadn’t been developed in the series yet. This doesn’t excuse why they didn’t think of beaming down a heater, or a tent, or a coat, or even some freaking gloves and scarves. Or that emergency concrete shelter stuff McCoy used to heal the Horta with… ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/82 "2017-03-14T16:52:00Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Really, pretty much everything about transporters. There is no reason anyone should ever die prematurely if they’ve been transported recently; just re-assemble a new copy and tell them the funny story about how their last transpo-clone was eaten by the rock monster. > > I _completely_ understand the narrative need for the transporters and don’t object, but over fifty years they never addressed the inherent paradoxes and problems. Like, where does the outgoing person/object go? And what is the incoming item assembled from? Are we postulating actual disassembly/reassembly of the same molecules, speed-of-lighted to the new location even deep inside planetary structures? And other than fanwank about buffer size and stability, what prevents beaming down, say, ten Kirks in a row? After all, the same technology can produce endless cups of “Tea, Earl Grey, hot” and all. To the people of Treks time those would be questions a 5 year old asks. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/83 "2017-03-14T17:19:26Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > The idea of shuttlecrafts hadn’t been developed in the series yet. This doesn’t excuse why they didn’t think of beaming down a heater, or a tent Hey, the transporter making duplicates was already stressful. You don’t need the landing party to get TWO tents! ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/84 "2017-03-14T17:19:41Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > But, but…the scarves and gloves would be _evil_!!! Only half of them. One scarf and one pair of gloves would be good, but meek. Maybe they’d be afraid of the cold, though. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I started a thread a while ago, asking whether the person being transported is killed in the process, and a perfect copy (complete with memories, etc.) is assembled at the other end, or if there was an actual disassembly/assembly of the same molecules. I don’t remember the answer. I like the fanwank that describing the transporter as a matter-energy-matter conversion is just a short hand description, a term without current meaning, like taped music and dialing a phone. The transporter really works by creating a sort of quantum tunneling effect, where the transporter creates the situation where the probability of you being both on the transporter pad and the destination point are equal, and then the system waits until you are “there” rather than “here”, and then stops. The "sparklin’ " effect is just the visualization of all the other possible quantum states superimposed over each other. Like the states where you are in a different universe, or the ones where the antimatter explosion vaporized you, or the ones where you were younger, or the ones where your insides are on the outside. :eek: Sometimes the system gets “confused” as to the correct state.(“What we got back didn’t live long…fortunately.”) If the transporter really worked like this, almost all the “transporter malfunctions” make sense, technically. Kirk became two people because the system couldn’t come to an agreement on which quantum state was correct. Kirk ended in the parallel universe because the quantum states were confused (that’s why his body/mind had the other Kirk’s uniform.) Beaming the airbase sergeant and Capt Christopher “into” themselves is just aligning the two timelines’ quantum states. The only reason they can’t consistently use the transporter to make you young, to cure disease, to time travel, is because matching the states is very hard. You can’t be sure the system picks the quantum state of the younger you and not your previously-unborn twin brother (or sister, or co-joined twin) or parallel universe younger you, or the ammonia-breathing you. This is how Q works, though. His people have the ability to pick any quantum state they want. They aren’t “altering” reality so much as “shifting” it. Added: if the trasnsporter really worked this way, it would eventually become clear that there is no one, objective “reality”. The reality of Picard not fighting the Nossicans vs the one where he got his heart destroyed, or the one where Edith Keeler lives and the one she dies, or the one where no life ever forms at all in the primordial soup, are all EQUALLY valid. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/85 "2017-03-14T17:34:10Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > If the transporter really worked like this, almost all the “transporter malfunctions” make sense, technically. Kirk became two people because the system couldn’t come to an agreement on which quantum state was correct. Kirk ended in the parallel universe because the quantum states were confused (that’s why his body/mind had the other Kirk’s uniform.) Beaming the airbase sergeant and Capt Christopher “into” themselves is just aligning the two timelines’ quantum states. Pretty good explanation. That explains Will and Tom Riker, too. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/86 "2017-03-14T17:37:34Z")
To late to edit: If the transporter really worked this way, it would eventually lead to people asking about the nature of reality. If keeping Edith Keeler alive means millions die who never died before, it also means millions who previously were born from these people who died never were born. And it means millions more who were never born the first time are now born. And so on and so on. Back on the planet of the Guardian, if Kirk and co. were able to look around, they’d see a universe of people living that were not alive in their timeline. When the timeline is reset, and Edith Keeler dies, all those people that were “alive” are now never-been-alive. So what is the nature of their existences? Did they have lives and then not? If they had “souls” (for lack of a better term) where did they go? All those lives, those choices moral and otherwise that they made, all of a sudden never happened? or did they? You ask too many questions like this, and perhaps you realize there’s no point to anything. We are just cozmik pool balls bouncing against each other. So if I murder you, does it matter? Because the reality where I didn’t is just as “valid” a universe. If I murder you, did I murder the entire future of everyone you and your offspring would ever interact with? Or did I just shift quantum states? In other words, is Q the greatest mass-murderer in the history of the entire universe? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/87 "2017-03-14T17:52:42Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > The idea of shuttlecrafts hadn’t been developed in the series yet. Do you mean to tell me _they were making it up as they went along?_ :eek: 😃 > [@silenus](#): > > But, but…the scarves and gloves would be _evil_!!! The Cruel Shoes > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Hey, the transporter making duplicates was already stressful. You don’t need the landing party to get TWO tents! Sulu “Two Sheds” Jackson? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/88 "2017-03-14T18:00:09Z")
Otherwise known as Larry Niven’s “All the Myriad Ways.” An excellent if totally depressing story. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/89 "2017-03-14T18:27:16Z")
The cookie cutter perfect characters in TNG bugged me. TOS had real characters. Scotty liked his whiskey and even got into a bar fight. Tip, never call the Enterprise a garbage scow around Scotty. Kirk liked the company of women. Bones was the cranky country doctor practicing high tech medicine. Even Sulu had his swashbuckling moment. They were interesting and colorful. TNG gives us the Bearded Guy and the Visor guy. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/90 "2017-03-14T18:28:50Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > To the people of Treks time those would be questions a 5 year old asks. Okay. I was thinking, y’know, Trek is fiction or something. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/91 "2017-03-14T18:31:08Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > TNG gives us the Bearded Guy and the Visor guy. And the Cleavage! Don’t forget the Cleavage! Another probably 5yo question… did they ever explain how the quintessential 24th century Frenchman, raised in something a lot like a traditional Francophone milieu, had a British accent? ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/92 "2017-03-14T18:35:38Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Wrong! There was the black female engineer in “The Alternative Factor” (Lt McMasters, IIRC), even if she was in a blue uniform. > > As noted elsewhere, Rand was mothering him. It would piss me off, too. > > **Putdown, shmutdown. You’re ordered to serve coffee, you serve coffee. You don’t like it, TFB. Buck up, or resign from the service.** > > Like like “I’m frightened!” were demeaning because Uhura, like all of the other secondary characters, deserved better writing. It’s not the military, it’s a TV show and could’ve done so much better at not objectifying and demeaning women. I didn’t want to go down this road in this thread, but I can’t let thinly veiled sexism stand, either. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/93 "2017-03-14T18:35:53Z")
In one of the early episodes they established that French was an “old language”. My guess is that after a few generations of using English as a primary language the French would gravitate to an “accentless” i.e RP English accent. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/94 "2017-03-14T18:44:28Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > So what is the nature of their existences? Did they have lives and then not? If they had “souls” (for lack of a better term) where did they go? All those lives, those choices moral and otherwise that they made, all of a sudden never happened? or did they? Judaism holds that to murder a single person is to murder a world. Admiral Janeway remarked that she hated time travel paradoxes at the Academy. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/95 "2017-03-14T19:10:35Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > And the Cleavage! Don’t forget the Cleavage! > > Another probably 5yo question… did they ever explain how the quintessential 24th century Frenchman, raised in something a lot like a traditional Francophone milieu, had a British accent? My personal theory is that somewhere in the near future, the Second Hundred Years War happens, and this time the right side wins. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/96 "2017-03-14T19:14:30Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > It’s not the military, it’s a TV show and could’ve done so much better at not objectifying and demeaning women. > > I didn’t want to go down this road in this thread, but I can’t let thinly veiled sexism stand, either. It was unheard of to have women serving on what was essentially a battleship, and they had a female officer who wasn’t a nurse serving on the bridge. Hormones affecting their mental health is STILL ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/97 "2017-03-14T19:24:05Z")
Oops, got cut off. Hormones affecting women’s health is still a valid legal defense against murder to this day. What do you expect for 1960’s medical science? The show was about as progressive as it could have been and no, just because “it’s a TV show” does not mean they could do anything they wanted. They risked being canceled if they went too far and that is reality, and there would not have been a show to criticize. The interracial kiss scene was censored in some places. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/98 "2017-03-14T19:40:45Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > And the Cleavage! Don’t forget the Cleavage!.. At one point in the planning stages Troi was supposed to have 3 or 4 breasts, but they couldn’t decide on how to arrange them without it looking too ridiculous. Roddenberry also envisioned her as a hermaphrodite at one point. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/99 "2017-03-14T19:52:58Z")
She got better. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109/100 "2017-03-14T20:17:44Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > It was unheard of to have women serving on what was essentially a battleship, and they had a female officer who wasn’t a nurse serving on the bridge. Hormones affecting their mental health is STILL In the pilot, Captain Pike remarks that he is uncomfortable serving with women officers. Roddenberry was breaking ground in the 1960s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-bug-you-about-star-trek/782109.md?page=6)