# Things that could be more acceptable to the other side if "sold" differently **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 11, 2020, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727 "2020-10-11T17:29:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/21 "2020-10-14T17:38:04Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Really, that’s the question. “School choice” includes the choice to send kids to Uncle Al’s Homeopath And Flat Earth Israel Ain’t Real But Race Is Alex Jones Infowars Infotainment Academy, or equivalent thereof, and that just doesn’t sit well with me. I want to live in a society where everyone at least has a solid chance to learn what reality is before they’re legally allowed to raise kids of their own. School choice also includes liberal parents pressuring the district to dump most of their resources into educational facilities benefitting white students while leaving minority students in the cold. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/22 "2020-10-15T03:33:20Z")
Was it RBG who argued that if the government could prohibit you from having an abortion, could it not be possible that the government could likewise force you to have an abortion without your consent? That was the reason to let women make their own choices. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/23 "2020-10-15T04:09:02Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > > [@Derleth](#): > > > > Really, that’s the question. “School choice” includes the choice to send kids to Uncle Al’s Homeopath And Flat Earth Israel Ain’t Real But Race Is Alex Jones Infowars Infotainment Academy, or equivalent thereof, and that just doesn’t sit well with me. I want to live in a society where everyone at least has a solid chance to learn what reality is before they’re legally allowed to raise kids of their own. > > School choice also includes liberal parents pressuring the district to dump most of their resources into educational facilities benefitting white students while leaving minority students in the cold. Not liberal, conservative: [It goes back to the origins of the Religious Right in fighting against segregation academies losing their tax-exempt status.](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133) Well, if they can’t have their all-White schools one way, they’ll have them another, and, once again, mutilate the idea of individual rights and local control to do it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/24 "2020-10-15T04:29:26Z")
To the various posters who think appealing to patriotism or national pride would make national health insurance more acceptable to conservatives: if “what we’ve got is a joke, a shadow of what other industrialized nations have” persuaded conservatives, the U.S. wouldn’t have a skeletal passenger rail system with a small handful of corridors in the Northeast and California that vaguely resemble what the Europeans, Japanese, Chinese, etc. have in spades. The conservative response to that argument is American exceptionalism: that comprehensive health insurance (or passenger rail service) may possibly work “over there” but it simply won’t work here because somehow we’re fundamentally different. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/25 "2020-10-15T05:10:54Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > American exceptionalism: comprehensive health insurance may possibly work “over there” but it simply won’t work here because somehow we’re fundamentally different. But how about Canada? Canada is the only country that masses of Americans are not afraid of. It’s not “over there”, and it’s not full of furreners. It’s full of white people who speak English just like us. (By “mass of Americans” I mean the majority of middle and lower-middle classes, who don’t have a passport and have never traveled to any other countries–hence the fear.) I’ve always said that the only way to sell good health care to Americans is to copy Canada’s system And then, instead of calling it “socialist” or Obamacare, or Affordable Care–sell it to the public as “CanadaCare” That would remove the fear factor. for most Americans Then we could have a rational discussion, and pretty soon most of the public would accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/26 "2020-10-15T05:32:45Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > To the various posters who think appealing to patriotism or national pride would make national health insurance more acceptable to conservatives: if “what we’ve got is a joke, a shadow of what other industrialized nations have” persuaded conservatives, the U.S. wouldn’t have a skeletal passenger rail system with a small handful of corridors in the Northeast and California that vaguely resemble what the Europeans, Japanese, Chinese, etc. have in spades. At the risk of derailing (no pun intended) the thread, there are valid reasons why Americans choose to fly from Philadelphia to Denver rather than take a high-speed train from Philadelphia to Denver. Logistics, geography, culture (which could make for low train demand,) etc. It isn’t necessarily about pride or lack of pride. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/27 "2020-10-15T05:33:58Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > I’ve always said that the only way to sell good health care to Americans is to copy Canada’s system > And then, instead of calling it “socialist” or Obamacare, or Affordable Care–sell it to the public as “CanadaCare” > That would remove the fear factor. for most Americans > Then we could have a rational discussion, and pretty soon most of the public would accept it. Errr…I don’t think so. A lot of conservatives view ‘socialist’ liberal Canada with suspicion and would hate to think that the USA has something to learn from Canada (even if it does.) You would have to sell it as _ **Better-than-Canada-care.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/28 "2020-10-15T05:45:17Z")
I was once discussing the public healthcare system with a friend of mine who is very conservative. I said that it would produce a major economic benefit. Our current system often connects people’s health care with their employment. I pointed out a lot of people stay in their job because they don’t want to take the chance of not being adequately insured if they or a family member had a serious medical problem. I said that if people were sure they could get adequate health care, a lot of them would be willing to take on the risk of being self-employed and starting up their own small businesses. The establishment of a public health care system would lead to a wave of entrepreneurship. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/29 "2020-10-15T06:19:54Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > I’ve always said that the only way to sell good health care to Americans is to copy Canada’s system > And then, instead of calling it “socialist” or Obamacare, or Affordable Care–sell it to the public as “CanadaCare” > That would remove the fear factor. for most Americans… The problem with this approach is that you’d have to get through the many misconceptions that some Americans have about healthcare in Canada. I’m Canadian, and on an American right-wing board that I follow, there are some amazing ones. Did you know that our physicians are all employed by the government, and that we have to wait for the government to assign us a family physician? The wait to be assigned a family physician is apparently six months or more. Should you need a specialist, you’re waiting up to a year or more, just to be seen. And you cannot buy your way to the head of the line, even if you can afford it, because “socialism.” Of course, that’s all BS. Canadian physicians are not government employees; they are private businesspeople, who simply bill the provincial government for services rendered to patients. Canadians are free to select any private physician they choose, and to change physicians if they wish–the government has no part in assigning physicians. A specialist will see you on the double-quick if time is of the essence (as it was for me once). If it’s elective surgery, they might not, but anything lifesaving will be seen to by the appropriate specialist immediately. And hospitals are not government-run, but usually run by non-profit corporations or religious orders, the latter of which treat all comers, regardless of religion. As for buying your way to the head of the line, of course you can. Just go to the US, where you can do that. Of course, you’re spending money for care you could have for nothing out-of-pocket at home, but it’s your money. Spend it as you please. My point is that while I like your idea about “Canada Care,” you’re up against these right-wing myths about Canadian healthcare. You need to dispel them before you start selling any plan as “Canada Care.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/30 "2020-10-15T18:46:57Z")
Caveat: I still generally like Americans and have a somewhat favourable view _but…_ Unrelated note from today’s paper: Canada’s opinion of the US at lowest point since this began being measured about 40 years ago. - 29% Canadians have a very favourable or somewhat favourable view of the US. - was 73% (2010), 47% (2017), 40% (2019). - Unfavourable view: 63% (2020), 55% (2019) - Consider the US a friend: 60% (2020), 89% (2013). - Consider the US an enemy: 11% (2020), 1% (2013). “More likely to see India as a friend of Canada than the United States.” - Opinions toward China and Russia also deteriorated. > **[Canadian opinions of the U.S. at lowest in nearly 40 years, polling program...](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canadian-opinions-of-the-us-at-lowest-in-nearly-40-years-polling/)** > > Eleven per cent of survey respondents say they see United States as ‘an enemy’ – up from 1 per cent in 2013 ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/31 "2020-10-15T21:21:42Z")
If the state can prohibit you from giving your kid heroin, could it not be possible to force you to give your kid heroin without your consent? That is a dumb analogy, even for RBG. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/32 "2020-10-15T21:24:56Z")
The US is the largest oil producing nation in the world. There is no reason to ask another nations for oil. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2020, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/33 "2020-10-15T22:42:03Z")
_The Election_ ‘This is a job review, not wish fullfillment like 2016. And with 200,000 dead and 20,000,000 unemployed, President Trump has shown himself incapable of doing the two things we expect even of our caretaker Presidents: Keeping Americans safe and keeping America prosperous.’ _The Election_ ‘If I hired this incompetent goombah to manage my Wendy’s, right now he’s looking at a 3% drop in customers, a 12% drop in revenue, his incompetent staff all yelling at each other, all while purposely ignoring a disease outbreak in the kitchen! What the hell! I wouldn’t wait until November 3rd to fire his ass!’ _Health Care_ ‘You know how health care plans get better and cheaper the larger your employer? Now imagine how good and cheap they would be _if everyone was on the same plan_. That’s single payer - we’re all paying into the same plan.’ _Trump_ ‘Come on, you wanna reward the guy who tried to steal the game?’ ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/34 "2020-10-16T02:01:58Z")
Liberals seem to have had some success winning conservatives over on prison reform by approaching it from a fiscal angle - focusing on the exorbitant costs of locking up non-violent drug offenders and other small fry doing time for what are essentially victimless crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/35 "2020-11-11T16:30:36Z")
I hate to have to dumb it down for the “All Lives Matter” morons but I wonder if it would help getting it through their thick skulls if the **Black Lives Matter** movement changed the name to **Black Lives Matter Too**. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/36 "2020-11-11T16:50:05Z")
I endorse this position, just to change the acronym to BLM2. Through my work, I have to deal with the Bureau of Land Management regularly, so I always have a moment of confusion hearing about BLM protests and marches… ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/37 "2020-11-11T19:19:07Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Did you know that our physicians are all employed by the government, and that we have to wait for the government to assign us a family physician? The wait to be assigned a family physician is apparently six months or more. Sadly, I wish this were false. Unfortunately, for years Quebec has been starving the health system. While foreign trained doctors are driving because of severe limits on how many are allowed to qualify (by doing an internship here), there is a desperate shortage of family physicians. My wife’s and my family physician of 40 years will retire on April 1, 2021. Although he has searched for a replacement, he has not found any. The various group practices around are uniformly not taking new patients and do not even have waiting lists. I apparently have to register with a government and wait for them to assign me a physician. The rest of your post is correct and I have to agree that the system has served me well until this. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/38 "2020-11-12T00:43:41Z")
like when liberals on campus protest speakers they don’t agree with, either by causing cancellation or disrupting speech, and restricting topics in class they don’t like. Note that conservatives have never done the same. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2020, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/39 "2020-11-12T06:02:36Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > **Abortion** - rather than “a woman deserves the right to choose” - which totally backfires with conservatives - point out that if liberals are likelier to have abortions, they are aborting their future liberal voters and giving conservatives a future edge at the polls. (Whether this is actually true or not would need more study, but the concept is intuitive.) This could suddenly get a lot of support from conservatives for abortion that they wouldn’t have otherwise. (I don’t think this approach is ethical or good, but it might _work_ - and this thread is only about what _works_ .) This doesn’t even remotely work if the person is in the conservative camp _because of_ their opposition to abortion. If they think “abortion is murder” they won’t condone abortion even if it has this sort of (dubious) long-term strategic appeal. I leave aside the notion that long-term strategic appeal is not the strong suit of most conservative voters. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2020, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727/40 "2020-11-13T06:12:20Z")
The second someone uses the specific word “toxins” I stop paying attention. It is used too much by hippie snake oil sellers to push some magic bath that creates rust and blames it on toxins leaving your body. I otherwise generally agree that people would generally be receptive to bad stuff in the environment, just call it something else. I don’t know why everyone talks about the NHS or Canada in healthcare discussions, you could probably push Swiss style or even German easier than those. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-could-be-more-acceptable-to-the-other-side-if-sold-differently/922727.md?page=3)