# Things that started as pop culture references, now overshadow that reference **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 9, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714 "2014-07-09T15:05:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/21 "2014-07-09T19:44:14Z")
I don’t know where the “Confessions of a \_\_\_\_\_” came from rightly. My first memory of it was the book: Confessions of an Economic Hitman but a quick googling turns up Confessions of a Dangerous Mind turns up 2 years earlier. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/22 "2014-07-09T21:03:15Z")
> [@bup](#): > > That’s probably the archetypal example for this thread. I guess the question is whether the Marx Brothers assumed, when they first chose those names, that everyone would recognize and chuckle at the homage; vs. whether they just thought it had a neat sound. Assuming it’s the first, then yeah, it’s a perfect example. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/23 "2014-07-09T22:11:47Z")
The pirate [Barbe Rouge and his crew](http://bdzoom.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/carte-barbe-rouge.jpg)are virtually unknown outside of France. However, [the pirates from Asterix](http://users.skynet.be/asterixlegaulois/informations/allusions_barbe_rouge.htm)are internationally famous. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/24 "2014-07-09T22:45:51Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > I don’t know where the “Confessions of a \_\_\_\_\_” came from rightly. My first memory of it was the book: Confessions of an Economic Hitman but a quick googling turns up Confessions of a Dangerous Mind turns up 2 years earlier. Anything earlier than “…English Opium Eater?” (1822) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/25 "2014-07-09T23:12:09Z")
St Augustine, AD 398. > **[Confessional writing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessional_writing)** > > Postmodernism; > Psychoanalysis; > The Cold-War; > Direct, often Colloquial Language; > Personal Revelations of Sin and Desire; > Divulsion of Secrets; > Self-Reflexivity; > Poetry; > Prose; > Graphic Novels; > Biography and Memoir; > Reality Television; > Confessional writing is a literary style and genre that developed in American writing schools following the Second World War. A prominent mode of confessional writing is confessional poetry, which emerged in the 1950s and 1960s. Confessional writing is often histor... ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/26 "2014-07-09T23:38:31Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Howard Stern took the “Hey Now!” catchphrase from the Larry Sanders show and made it his own. I don’t know about other people, but I had always assumed it was his from the start until I learned otherwise. I’ve still never seen Larry Sanders. Great show. Howard even guest starred on an episode. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/27 "2014-07-09T23:50:53Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I think The Beatles qualify. Their name refers to two things that were popular in the early 60s, but which are now pretty much forgotten. The spelling of the name was a nod to the genre of music popular in England then, [beat music](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_music), and the use of an insect name was inspired by Buddy Holly’s band The Crickets. The Beatles have certainly overshadowed both of those things. I always wonder whether the name also came from the Beat Generation. > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Foghorn Leghorn is better known today than [Senator Claghorn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senator_Claghorn). Many of the early Warner Brothers cartoons are filled with caricatures of celebrities and politicians, many of which are relatively unknown today. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/28 "2014-07-09T23:52:45Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > St Augustine, AD 398. I thought of that too, but the hook is the “of a,” no? ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/29 "2014-07-10T00:09:35Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Many of the early Warner Brothers cartoons are filled with caricatures of celebrities and politicians, many of which are relatively unknown today. Most definitely. I had basically memorized the excellent Bugs Bunny cartoon “Hair-Raising Hare” before ever seeing **Casablanca**. When I first saw Ugarte appear I shouted “That’s the Evil Scientist!” ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/30 "2014-07-10T02:35:47Z")
Again, TV Tropes has a page on this: [Weird Al Effect](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WeirdAlEffect). ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/31 "2014-07-10T02:38:02Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > Most definitely. I had basically memorized the excellent Bugs Bunny cartoon “Hair-Raising Hare” before ever seeing **Casablanca**. When I first saw Ugarte appear I shouted “That’s the Evil Scientist!” I’ve got this book from 1989 called _Bugs Bunny: Fifty Years and Only One Gray Hare._ The writer of it makes a similar point. When discussing the cartoon “What’s Up, Doc?” (which was kind of a parody of all those rise-to-fame type movies), he points out the scene where vaudeville star Elmer Fudd comes upon Bugs, who’s fallen on hard times along with several other out-of-work stars. He turns his nose up at Eddie Cantor, Al Jolson, and Bing Crosby doing their familiar shticks, then greets Bugs, “Hey, Bugs Bunny! What are you doing here with these nobodies? They’ll never amount to anything!” The writer goes on to say that this was tongue-in-cheek satire back then, but to kids watching Saturday morning cartoons today, it’s dead serious…they’ve got absolutely no idea who these guys are! Like Morbo, I was first acquainted with Peter Lorre, Edward G. Robinson, Humphrey Bogart, and others through their caricatures on these cartoons. Back when Pop-Up Video was big on VH1, I often thought the Cartoon Network ought to follow suit with “Pop-Up Cartoon Classics”…running Bugs Bunny and other classic cartoons with pop-up factoids to explain all the cultural references that we wouldn’t get so easily today (references to rationing cards in cartoons made during WWII, for example). ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/32 "2014-07-10T04:43:58Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Anything earlier than “…English Opium Eater?” (1822) There’s ‘The Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner’ (James Hogg) but that’s 1824 – could be the earliest example of the trope, though. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/33 "2014-07-10T05:03:20Z")
[https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=intitle%3A"confessions+of+an"&biw=1458&bih=775&source=lnt&tbs=sbd%3A1%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd\_min%3A%2Ccd\_max%3A31%2F12%2F1820&tbm=bks](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=intitle%3A%22confessions+of+an%22&biw=1458&bih=775&source=lnt&tbs=sbd%3A1%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A%2Ccd_max%3A31%2F12%2F1820&tbm=bks) The Confessions of the Celebrated Countess of Lichtenau, Late Mrs. Rietz … By Wilhelmine Enke Lichtenau 1799 The Confessions of a Singer Fanny Lyndhurst - 1806 The confessions of an odd-tempered man. By Amelia Alderson Opie 1818 The Confessions of a Drunkard: A Narrative Founded on Fact By Luke Howard 1821 ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/34 "2014-07-10T14:33:11Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I think The Beatles qualify. Their name refers to two things that were popular in the early 60s, but which are now pretty much forgotten. The spelling of the name was a nod to the genre of music popular in England then, [beat music](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_music), and the use of an insect name was inspired by Buddy Holly’s band The Crickets. The Beatles have certainly overshadowed both of those things. > [@panache45](#): > > I always wonder whether the name also came from the Beat Generation. Millions of people who know the Beatles and beat music couldn’t tell you the origin and meaning of the phrase: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Jack Kerouac introduced the phrase “Beat Generation” in 1948 to characterize a perceived underground, anti-conformist youth movement in New York. The name arose in a conversation with writer John Clellon Holmes. Kerouac allows that it was street hustler Herbert Huncke who originally used the phrase “beat”, in an earlier discussion with him. The adjective “beat” could colloquially mean “tired” or “beaten down” within the African-American community of the period and had developed out of the image "beat to his socks but Kerouac appropriated the image and altered the meaning to include the connotations “upbeat”, “beatific”, and the musical association of being “on the beat”. Indeed, how many of them even know the word “beatific”? The late 1950’s and early 1960’s is a period that fascinates me. It got so overshadowed by the later 1960’s. And speaking of Airplane!, I’ve met younger people who say “Don’t call me Shirley” who have no idea where it came from. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/35 "2014-07-10T14:43:55Z")
Voltaire’s Candide was a ruthless satire of Leibniz optimistic philosophy (among other common views of the time). This is perhaps a little bit different since most people read Candide for school, where they probably discuss these facts, but I’d still say that the parody of these viewpoints that Candide portrays are far better known and remembered than the actual viewpoints they’re criticizing. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/36 "2014-07-10T19:44:22Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Foghorn Leghorn is better known today than [Senator Claghorn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senator_Claghorn). > > The Marx Brothers got the idea of ending their names with “O” from _Knocko the Monk_, a popular comic strip by Gus Mager that ran in newspapers starting in 1904. All the characters were monkeys whose names ended in “O”. Knocko the Monk gradually morphed into _Sherlocko the Monk_, a strip about a monkey detective. After the Conan Doyle estate threatened to sue over the name, the strip became [_Hawkshaw the Detective_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkshaw_the_Detective) which ran until 1953. > > Everyone has heard of Groucho Marx. Knocko the Monk, not so many … . There is also a joke by Groucho in “Duck Soup” that often gets edited out that references a popular song of 1930 that was recorded by Kate Smith and Paul Robeson. > **[That's Why Darkies Were Born](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That's_Why_Darkies_Were_Born)** > > "That's Why Darkies Were Born" was a song written by Ray Henderson and Lew Brown. It originated in George White's Scandals of 1931, where white baritone Everett Marshall performed the song in blackface. > The song was popularized by singer Kate Smith, whose rendition was a hit in 1931,\[better source needed\] and by singer and civil rights activist Paul Robeson. It was also featured in a 1931 all-star recording of a medley of songs from George White's Scandals. > One verse runs: ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/37 "2014-07-10T19:50:08Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > The band took its name directly from the movie, and the movie takes its title from Don Quixote. In the movie, George C. Scott is a mental patient, who at one point explains that Don Quixote was a genius because he thought that every windmill _might be_ a giant. Don Quixote himself is the example that I came in to mention. Cervantes wrote Don Quixote as a parody of the then-popular (although fading) chivalric romances; the romances from that era have been mostly forgotten, but Don Quixote himself survives as our familiar exemplar of a “chivalrous knight”. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714/38 "2014-07-10T19:50:49Z")
Three Stooges short “Men in Black” overshadows the Clark Gable-Myrna Loy film “Men in White” it spoofs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-that-started-as-pop-culture-references-now-overshadow-that-reference/692714.md?page=1)