# Things we learned from Civilization IV
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295
**Category:** The Game Room
**Created:** [November 12, 2009, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295 "2009-11-12T07:46:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)
#### Post date: [November 12, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/21 "2009-11-12T23:51:05Z")
> [@Jihi](#):
>
> The French are dirty, rotten thieves who will constantly send spies into your territory to steal technological secrets.
>
> If you find one it’s perfectly acceptable to march cross country and burn Paris to the ground. No one else seemed to mind much. 😛
[This make you feel better?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10541148&postcount=21) 😃
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### Author:  [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/22 "2009-11-13T00:25:45Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#):
>
> [This make you feel better?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10541148&postcount=21) 😃
Oh that’s awesome! Death to the cheese eaters! 😃
For the longest time it seemed whenever I booted up a new campaign in Civ4 the French always became a thorn in my side without fail. I played in many different configurations, different civs, maps (both randomized and downloaded), difficulty levels, starting in different eras, mods and no mods, and every single time I would strike a peace or trade deal with them and it was only a matter of time before my counter espionage efforts would turn up a french spy in my capital or one of my larger cities. It was almost comical. I know it was probably coincidence or confirmation bias but it got to the point where every time I found their territory I’d go in guns blazing and I wouldn’t stop till every city was either razed or in my control. Sometime if I wanted to get in good with someone else I’d capture one of their cities and then hand it off to a neighbor for a pittance.
Good times for all… (except the French.)
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### Author:  [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/23 "2009-11-13T00:45:58Z")
Destroy Alexander as soon as possible.
One thing I wish the computer would learn is that, if you demand something from me, I WILL DESTROY YOU. It may not be within that century, it may be a thousand years from then, but before the game is over every city of your will either be mine or razed to the ground.
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### Author:  [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/24 "2009-11-13T01:07:31Z")
A phalanx can beat an armoured division, every now and then.
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### Author:  [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/25 "2009-11-13T01:15:31Z")
I really wish I was better at that damn game. It’s so much fun but I suck so horribly at it.
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### Author:  [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/26 "2009-11-13T05:32:13Z")
I learned that I should wait until all the expansions and add-ons are out and sold in one complete package. Otherwise, I’m just burning money.
Oh, from the game itself? Well, building up the navy might be considered essential by the programmers, but I like stealth planes, myself. There’s nothing like pounding a city to the ground and then sending in a couple of piddly ground troops to take care of the nearly dead Axeman who’s the only enemy fighter left in that city’s garrison. The enemy’s troops in other cities have likewise been pounded, so they are not going to take this city back anytime soon.
Scouts are worthless, even if they can move more than warriors. Warriors can upgrade to useful things. Scouts upgrade to…explorers, which are unlocked way too late in the game to be useful.
If I don’t have Iron and Horses in my territory, or near enough to my territory that I can get to them, by the time I can use them, I’m just gonna start a new game.
Upgrade the horse-using units. It WILL make a difference. And mounted fighters of all kinds can be very, very useful.
And, of course:
Nuke 'em from orbit, it’s the only way to be SURE.
What my husband has learned: That I am currently engaged in wiping out the French, or the Russians, or the Indians, and that he’s on his own for dinner.
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### Author:  [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/27 "2009-11-13T07:29:27Z")
> [@Sitnam](#):
>
> Generations worth of work on a World Wonder will all be for naught if someone else builds something similar on the other side of the world just a year ahead of you.
If it’s that close, yeah, I’m totally pissed, but if it’s several turns away, I can at least be sort of happy that my wretched economy is getting a little boost from the gold that one is awarded.
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### Author:  [@fuzzypickles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fuzzypickles)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/28 "2009-11-13T08:56:18Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#):
>
> Uh, no. Nimoy sounded stupid in many of those quotes. Beep beep beep was one of them. :smack:
Not as bad as pig iron pig iron I got pig iron I got all pig iron.
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### Author:  [@MindWanderer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindWanderer)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/29 "2009-11-13T12:30:12Z")
I learned in a recent game where I ICBMed every city on another continent I was invading that Nukes kill mass numbers of your enemy’s citizens but have no effect on their armies.
Also, once you start nuking people, all your land starts turning to desert.
Also I learned that if you try to play Civ 4 as just a wargame you end up way behind and get owned. That was another recent game where I conquered a lot of civs and then ran into the brick wall of superior tech.
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### Author:  [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/30 "2009-11-13T12:30:37Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#):
>
> Scouts are worthless, even if they can move more than warriors. Warriors can upgrade to useful things. Scouts upgrade to…explorers, which are unlocked way too late in the game to be useful.
Nah. In the beginning of the game, they are great - move much faster, and get better goodies out of the goodie huts. I just assume they’re expendable, since you’re right, they don’t upgrade into anything good.
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#):
>
> If I don’t have Iron and Horses in my territory, or near enough to my territory that I can get to them, by the time I can use them, I’m just gonna start a new game.
Bronze or Iron is the must-have for me (must… have… axemen…). I don’t think I’ve ever gotten to the point that I needed horses that I haven’t had them yet, either through expansion or war.
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### Author:  [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/31 "2009-11-13T14:06:16Z")
> [@Athena](#):
>
> I just assume they’re expendable, since you’re right, they don’t upgrade into anything good.
I’ve found one use for explorers. If you’re not at war it’s really easy to get your explorers to the fourth and fifth upgrade levels which enables the building of the wonders to give your new units experience points (Pentagon and ???, I forget the other one but they’re useful).
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### Author:  [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/32 "2009-11-13T14:45:28Z")
> [@Koxinga](#):
>
> Giving up trade relations or entering a war with someone because another civ “demands” it is never a good idea. They’ll become best buddies again while you’re left holding the bag.
I learned that back in Civ II. Some nominally-friendly civ (usually nominally-friendly because I just finished going all XX Century on them) demands I declare war on someone else. I do so, and alliance cascades cause the original civ to re-declare war on me.
I eventually got used to fighting the Fifteen Hundred Years Global War.
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### Author:  [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/33 "2009-11-13T14:47:49Z")
I’ve learned that if you use a lot of nukes the Earth cracks like a donut, which I hate with a passion and wish they would take out of the game.
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### Author:  [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/34 "2009-11-13T15:34:55Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#):
>
> Scouts are worthless, even if they can move more than warriors. Warriors can upgrade to useful things. Scouts upgrade to…explorers, which are unlocked way too late in the game to be useful.
> [@Athena](#):
>
> Nah. In the beginning of the game, they are great - move much faster, and get better goodies out of the goodie huts. I just assume they’re expendable, since you’re right, they don’t upgrade into anything good.
I’m with Athena.
Scouts move twice as fast as Warriors, get the best results from huts (and also stop your opponents grabbing the huts for themselves) and map the World for you.
If your Scouts don’t die from animals and Barbarians, you’re not using them enough!
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### Author:  [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/35 "2009-11-13T15:48:53Z")
> [@glee](#):
>
> If your Scouts don’t die from animals and Barbarians, you’re not using them enough!
Ha! That’s sorta what I was thinking. Upgrade? Scouts? Hell, they never make it beyond the catapult stage.
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### Author:  [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/36 "2009-11-13T17:56:23Z")
There are some mods which greatly reduce the “memory” of a civ you pissed off by rejecting their “fair and honorable” offer for you to backstab a close (+10 or higher) ally. I absolutely loathe the concept that Churchill would still be mad at me 1,000 years after I told him no to him demanding that I cut off trade (a mere open borders agreement, and nothing more) with Frederick.
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### Author:  [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/37 "2009-11-13T18:12:09Z")
> [@Athena](#):
>
> Bronze or Iron is the must-have for me (must… have… axemen…). I don’t think I’ve ever gotten to the point that I needed horses that I haven’t had them yet, either through expansion or war.
The biggest reason The Native Americans are one of my favorite Civs if I’m playing on high difficulty. The combinations of protective and the Totem Pole makes their Archers all kinds of dangerous and add in early Dog Soldiers which are better than axemen and don’t require bronze combine to make them LETHAL early on.
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### Author:  [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/38 "2009-11-13T18:26:46Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#):
>
> There are some mods which greatly reduce the “memory” of a civ you pissed off by rejecting their “fair and honorable” offer for you to backstab a close (+10 or higher) ally. I absolutely loathe the concept that Churchill would still be mad at me 1,000 years after I told him no to him demanding that I cut off trade (a mere open borders agreement, and nothing more) with Frederick.
Especially when those two civs are best friggin’ friends now!
I learned that expanding in a circle/semicircle is beneficial.
Get one or two costal cities, and then expand towards the center of continent. Do your best to build cities on hills, preferably with as many sides to water/rivers as possible. I once got especially lucky on a particularly challenging game (in higher difficulty) and got my capital city on a hill, surrounded by flatlands (with 4 squares flatlands, all but one separated by river)/ocean (4 ocean).
That city, despite having armies pounding through my territory, was particularly defensible and was the center of my military and economic power.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/39 "2009-11-13T19:21:44Z")
I learned that you can learn to write before you learn the alphabet. And that every once in a while, the Arabs will demand that you convert to Judaism. Also that the AI has one goal- stop YOU from winning. They trade techs with each other willy-nilly and they know exactly when and where to attack you.
I think scouts are ok if you get them free from a goodie hut. I never build them. By the time explorers are available, you have no use for them.
I like to make no more than one move with my first settler before founding my capital. Then use the initial warrior to scout the land for city#2 whilst trolling for goodie huts. If I see an enemy civ early I try to expand toward him to try to establish the border on as favorable terms as possible. I always try to found a religion so that I can build the shrine with a great prophet so I can later make great profits.
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### Author:  [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)
#### Post date: [November 13, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-we-learned-from-civilization-iv/517295/40 "2009-11-13T19:43:41Z")
Scouts are actually pretty good at distracting enemy units.
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