# Things your lawyer should not have to learn from Counsel Opposite **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 14, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116 "2010-04-14T20:21:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/61 "2010-04-22T05:57:46Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > One of the benefits to rural practice is I get to try cases in beautiful old courthouses, many built on a square in the center of town. High ceilings, polished wood, columns, each courtroom unique in appearance and feel. I hate some of the more modern buildings–especially one built in the 70s in one of my most distant counties. Damn thing is ugly as homemade sin, and sits right off the highway next to a Wal-Mart… When I had jury duty the first stage of the selection process (where the 100+ people called gather) was in the courthouse’s main courtroom. It was a huge, beautiful, room, wood \*everywhere \*, barely changed from when it was built 150 yrs ago (it even still had a prisonor’s dock in the middle of the room). The actual trial I was assigned was in the more modern annex and the courtroom was just generic 20th century institutional bland style. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![sevenwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@sevenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sevenwood)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/62 "2010-04-22T11:57:15Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > I had occasion to go into the Salem (Massachusetts) Registry of Deeds building not too long ago, and was required to turn over not only my cellphone but also the point-and-shoot camera I happened to have in my shoulder bag. And I wasn’t even going to a courtroom, just to register a deed. I’m not sure whether there even are any courtrooms in that building. I’m guessing they just didn’t want you taking any (unofficial) pictures of their documents, and collected your cell phone because of the high percentage of them that can take pictures. (Examining each incoming cell phone to determine if it can take pictures - and arguing with cellphone owners about it - is probably a lot more time-consuming than just collecting them all.) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/63 "2010-04-22T14:03:32Z")
> [@Campion](#): > > Bitch is lying. It never happened. Sometimes the bitch IS lying and it never happened. My ex was great with that, while she regularly smacked me and even assaulted me in my sleep. Because of course, who is going to believe the 6’ tall guy with the blackbelt and the weapons over the 5’ tall woman on disability, when she says she’s being abused? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/64 "2010-04-22T14:20:23Z")
[There is the case of Jacoby Smith](http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2010/04/jacoby_smith_be.php). He claims that his quadruple amputee girlfriend started it, beating him with “her nubs”. Oh, and she was cheating on him as well. So he beat her. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/65 "2010-04-22T14:36:01Z")
Well, she does admit that she has an anger management problem, so that’s pretty much an admission that she was smacking him “with her nubs”. Does not excuse him punching her in the face 10 times. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/66 "2010-04-22T14:59:49Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Just out of curiousity, if it is shown that the baby is not the (soon to be) ex-husbands, would he still be liable for child support? He would be if he lived in Georgia, where children conceived during a marriage are legally assumed to be the husband’s unless the wife specifies otherwise. And even if the child is proven not to be the husband’s he is still liable for child support, etc. on the grounds that regardless of the parentage the child still needs to be taken care of. I personally know someone in this situation – he didn’t sire the child but paid child support and had shared custody. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/67 "2010-04-22T15:53:10Z")
> [@sevenwood](#): > > I’m guessing they just didn’t want you taking any (unofficial) pictures of their documents, and collected your cell phone because of the high percentage of them that can take pictures… Our bailiffs announce at the outset of most court sessions that all cellphones and pagers should be set in silent mode. If any then audibly go off, they’re confiscated until the end of the docket. Some hardass judges confiscate them for good, and they’re donated to local charities such as DV shelters after being reset. There have been some stories lately of camera phones being used to take pictures of jurors or witnesses in gang-related criminal trials, and there’s a bit of concern about that, but it doesn’t seem to be much of an issue here in NE Ohio. ---
**Author:** ![Campion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@Campion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Campion)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/68 "2010-04-22T16:14:44Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > I used to go to school across the street from there when it was still CNA. I was very confused when that change happened. Now I work in law, but haven’t had occasion to go over there – I think that building is primarily family law. If you’re talking about the building on Commonwealth, it’s also where the complex panel sits (Central Civil West). Having appeared there a few times, I agree that there must be family law there, and I wonder if maybe some misdemeanors as well. But all of the complex panel judges sit there, too. > [@NinetyWt](#): > > The judge in my recent experience was treated with a lot of respect. The bailiff did the “all rise!” thing, although he was a bit slow and often we had all stood up before he said it. He and the court clerk were most deferential and attentive to the judge, refilling her water pitcher, opening doors for her, etc. In most of the courts I’ve been in in California, they typically either have the bailiff announce, “Remain seated and come to order; this court is now in session, the Honorable Blah Blah presiding.” There was one judge who had everyone do the pledge of allegiance every morning. It was a bit jarring, since I haven’t had to do the pledge since elementary school. > [@Chimera](#): > > Sometimes the bitch IS lying and it never happened. > > My ex was great with that, while she regularly smacked me and even assaulted me in my sleep. Because of course, who is going to believe the 6’ tall guy with the blackbelt and the weapons over the 5’ tall woman on disability, when she says she’s being abused? :dubious: Yep. One of the first cases I took on was someone who’d been arrested and criminally prosecuted for domestic violence, having been set up (was acquitted though, thanks to an awesome public defender). We handled the civil restraining order trial, and when we were done with trial, the person who’d been arrested as the purported abuser got a restraining order against the supposed “victim,” who was ordered into a 52-week batterer’s program. So, yes, sometimes the bitch is lying, and I do think that as lawyers we managed to do some things that the client could not have done in court very effectively. So sometimes good representation can make the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/69 "2010-04-22T16:31:33Z")
> [@Campion](#): > > If you’re talking about the building on Commonwealth, it’s also where the complex panel sits (Central Civil West). Having appeared there a few times, I agree that there must be family law there, and I wonder if maybe some misdemeanors as well. But all of the complex panel judges sit there, too. I know for a fact that some family law resides there; I’ve had documents retrieved from there. I didn’t know about the others. But yes, we’re talking about the same place. I work in white collar criminal law for the most part, so I am not very familiar with what all goes on over yonder. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/70 "2010-04-22T17:53:02Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > So **Bricker** , have you ever had a client testify in the narrative? What does “testify in the narrative” mean? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/71 "2010-04-22T19:14:11Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > What does “testify in the narrative” mean? It means the guy is planning to perjure himself. Since a lawyer is an officer of the court and can be disbarred for allowing perjury, that means the lawyer can’t allow the guy to testify. But the guy is also entitled to zealous advocacy. So the lawyer has to tell the judge that ethically he has to withdraw from the case. Except this could screw the client. And so the judge will allow the client to get up on the stand and tell his story without interuption, and the defense attorny will have no part of the perjured testimony. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/72 "2010-04-22T19:57:02Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > It means the guy is planning to perjure himself. > > Since a lawyer is an officer of the court and can be disbarred for allowing perjury, that means the lawyer can’t allow the guy to testify. But the guy is also entitled to zealous advocacy. So the lawyer has to tell the judge that ethically he has to withdraw from the case. Except this could screw the client. And so the judge will allow the client to get up on the stand and tell his story without interuption, and the defense attorny will have no part of the perjured testimony. So is this _only_ used when the lawyer withdraws? Or does “testify in the narrative” simply mean to tell your tale without interruption"? Because it otherwise sound like the guy is testifying while everyone knows he’s lying. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/73 "2010-04-22T20:09:51Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > So is this _only_ used when the lawyer withdraws? Or does “testify in the narrative” simply mean to tell your tale without interruption"? Because it otherwise sound like the guy is testifying while everyone knows he’s lying. I’ve never done this, but I don’t believe you need to withdraw to let your client testify in the narrative (at least in most jurisdictions), merely the court’s leave. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/74 "2010-04-23T02:00:50Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > I’ve never done this, but I don’t believe you need to withdraw to let your client testify in the narrative (at least in most jurisdictions), merely the court’s leave. Correct – although if you have not withdrawn, and the narrative contained statements you know to be false, you may not argue them at your closing. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116/75 "2010-04-23T03:25:39Z")
It’s a lot more common in legal ethical textbooks than in real life. I’ve never been involved in a case where it happened, or even heard of it happening in any court of which I’m aware… although I’m sure it has sometime, somewhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-your-lawyer-should-not-have-to-learn-from-counsel-opposite/536116.md?page=3)