# Think there's anything to this? JFK assassination witness speaks
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [September 12, 2023, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965 "2023-09-12T06:34:55Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/21 "2023-09-12T16:02:40Z")
I think with the 60th anniversary of the assassination coming up, it’s prime CT book-selling time, and someone wanted a name to peddle their story. They found an old man who was a plausible witness and either paid him off or double-talked him into believing the narrative they wanted to push.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/22 "2023-09-12T16:10:18Z")
Nothing to see here. Just a guy trying to cash in as he reaches old age. Oswald acted alone, there is not the slightest shadow of a doubt about it.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2023, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/23 "2023-09-12T17:37:18Z")
> [@Moriarty](#):
>
> Supposedly, he put the bullet on the stretcher because he thought it important to keep it with the body, to ensure a thorough and accurate analysis of what transpired.
That’s plenty stupid. Didn’t they have evidence bags in 1963? Or envelopes? It boggles the mind!
What good would that do? Maybe the secret service really were stupid.
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### Author:  [@sb1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sb1953)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2023, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/24 "2023-09-12T18:37:56Z")
Paul Landis has written an account of his actions on Nov. 22 1963 in Dallas. He was riding in the car behind the president and witnessed the asassination. When his car arrived at Parkland he saw a bullet embedded in the seatback of the president’s car and removed it, carried it into the hospital and placed it on the stretcher.
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### Author:  [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2023, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/25 "2023-09-12T21:05:57Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#):
>
> I think with the 60th anniversary of the assassination coming up, it’s prime CT book-selling time, and someone wanted a name to peddle their story. They found an old man who was a plausible witness and either paid him off or double-talked him into believing the narrative they wanted to push.
Or, even if he truly believes this himself, **it’s been sixty years**. What can anyone **do** about it at this rate? Oh, right: sell books. And ad time on TV, or “documentaries” for streaming services.
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### Author:  [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2023, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/26 "2023-09-12T21:46:26Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> I also remember the theory that one of the secret service agents riding on the back accidentally (really, it was an accident, not an “accident” 🙂 ) shot Kennedy, and _this_ is what has been covered up all these years. Maybe this dude was the shooter, and 60 years of guilt finally made him believe he didn’t do it.
This is an incredible stretch. It implies that either a secret service agent was carrying a Carcano rifle or that he fired a pistol. Pistols don’t fire 6.5 Carcano cartridges. If a pistol was used the theory requires that a pistol bullet was never found.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2023, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/27 "2023-09-12T22:08:35Z")
> [@mixdenny](#):
>
> It implies that either a secret service agent was carrying a Carcano rifle or that he fired a pistol. Pistols don’t fire 6.5 Carcano cartridges. If a pistol was used the theory requires that a pistol bullet was never found.
Note ! I am not a Kennedy conspiricist! I don’t believe this.
Given that - that’s the whole point of the cover up, now innit?
Consider: Oswald, the true lone gunman, shoots, but misses Kennedy and hits Connally. A Secret Service agent panics and accidentally shoots Kennedy. Our brave leader, cut down in his prime! And, as it turns out, shot by friendly fire. This will not do! The CTers will have a field day! So the Warren Commission fudges a little. Bullets go missing, calibers are changed. Oswald was the only shooter, really. He wasn’t part of a vast conspiracy. He wanted to kill Kennedy, so it’s easy to just attribute Kennedy’s death to him. No one will be the wiser, our healing can begin. Everyone will just forget the slight discrepancies.
Yea, that didn’t work as planned. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2023, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/28 "2023-09-12T22:20:59Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> So the Warren Commission fudges a little. Bullets go missing, calibers are changed. Oswald was the only shooter, really.
Look, I’m as happy to run down a rabbit hole as anyone, but you have to go a long way to convince me that [a group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Commission) that includes Earl Warren, Gerald Ford, and [John Sherman Cooper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sherman_Cooper) are going to agree on a conspiracy, much less a conspiracy that critics have been trying to tear apart for 60 years.
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### Author:  [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2023, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/29 "2023-09-12T22:30:00Z")
Y’all need to go read [James Ellroy’s _American Tabloid_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Tabloid) right now.
(Yeah, I know it’s fiction, but it’s _awesome_ fiction. I’m re-reading the whole trilogy now.)
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### Author:  [@DaveUnknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveUnknown)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2023, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/30 "2023-09-12T23:14:14Z")
This was a Sunday NYT article. Interesting, but not convincing-- a book deal, basically. Apparently the SS were out all night socializing, and may not have been 100% at the time off the assassination, and yes, the agent was not really interviewed as part of the Warren report. He thought his superiors were protecting them. I find that more interesting than the ‘placed bullet’ anecdote.
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### Author:  [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2023, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/31 "2023-09-12T23:18:21Z")
According to today’s Times, he still believes that Oswald was the lone assassin; only not with the “magic bullet” that went through Kennedy and then Connolly.
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### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2023, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/32 "2023-09-13T05:09:56Z")
As I understand the whole “magic bullet” thing, the Warren Commission included a diagram showing Kennedy and Connolly sitting perfectly upright in their seats, and looking straight ahead. In order for their wounds to line up, a bullet must have passed through Kennedy, ricocheted off his rib, made a turn, then passed through Connolly’s torso and hit his wrist. This was dubbed the magic bullet and spawned a million conspiracy theories.
The simpler answer, as supported by the Zapruder film, is that Kennedy was leaning forward to talk to Connolly, and Connolly had turned his shoulders and head to hear Kennedy better. When you place the bodies in those positions, the wounds line up perfectly.
I’ve always thought there was an interesting lesson there about conspiracy theorists; they latch on to a minor inconsistency and use it to justify the most complicated story they can come up with. Occam’s Razor means nothing to these people, nothing!
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2023, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/33 "2023-09-13T05:59:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#):
>
> Nothing to see here. Just a guy trying to cash in as he reaches old age. Oswald acted alone, there is not the slightest shadow of a doubt about it.
He doesnt say otherwise.
But a memory six decades old is worthless.
Not to mention that guy has twenty years+ on me, and I can’t remember what I had for lunch last week.
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> A Secret Service agent panics and accidentally shoots Kennedy.
By a 6.5 carcano? A WW1 rifle?
It doesnt even make the same size hole as what the Secret Service was carrying.
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### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2023, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/34 "2023-09-13T06:57:15Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#):
>
> The simpler answer, as supported by the Zapruder film, is that Kennedy was leaning forward to talk to Connolly, and Connolly had turned his shoulders and head to hear Kennedy better. When you place the bodies in those positions, the wounds line up perfectly.
IIRC, Kennedy’s seat was also elevated above Connolly’s.
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### Author:  [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2023, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/35 "2023-09-13T11:14:06Z")
I may be misremembering, but I recall an explanation of the magic bullet that claims the bullet would have had to swerve in midair between the two men in order to cause those wounds all by itself. And also that (by my recollection) a subsequently published diagram debunks the need for that swerve by showing that they were not, in fact seated precisely one behind the other (Connolly more “inboard” than Kennedy, maybe?) and that Connolly was slightly turned, so a straight-line path could have done it.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2023, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/36 "2023-09-13T11:44:55Z")
Yes you remember right. The two were not seated directly behind each other and there was no need for the “magic bullet” to swerve in the slightest.
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### Author:  [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2023, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/37 "2023-09-13T16:19:49Z")
I still think the “guy in the sewer” is the answer.
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### Author:  [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2023, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/38 "2023-09-13T16:21:30Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#):
>
> I’ve always thought there was an interesting lesson there about conspiracy theorists; they latch on to a minor inconsistency and use it to justify the most complicated story they can come up with. Occam’s Razor means nothing to these people, nothing!
And I wonder how many of them are motivated by a sense of their own potential to someday snap and do something they can’t take back. If they can exonerate Oswald, might make things a tad easier for them someday, eh?
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2023, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/39 "2023-09-14T13:36:17Z")
This 2014 thread may be of interest:
> [@Meeting one of JFK's Secret Service agents](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meeting-one-of-jfks-secret-service-agents/693745):
>
> On June 23, I had the chance to meet retired U.S. Secret Service Special Agent Paul Landis. He spoke at a northeast Ohio courthouse and was introduced by a judge who knows him and is personally interested in President John F. Kennedy’s life and times. Landis, who served in the Secret Service from 1959-1964 and is now retired, spoke to a crowd of about thirty. He is a quiet, slim man who gives an impression of diffident sadness. In the late 1950s, he had a friend who worked for the Secret Ser…
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### Author:  [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/think-theres-anything-to-this-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks/989965/40 "2023-09-14T14:09:54Z")
> [@Moriarty](#):
>
> Supposedly, he put the bullet on the stretcher because he thought it important to keep it with the body, to ensure a thorough and accurate analysis of what transpired. Yet he _didn’t_ think it important to _tell anybody_ what he found
Yes, I was immediately struck by this claim as well. “I’ll just put this here, and they’ll know what to do”.
Here’s how it might have happened, though. Consider he did something “dumb” under the stress of the situation. But events started to take on a life of their own in the investigation. At some point fairly soon he knew he would never likely reveal what he did with that bullet.
Or he is trying to sell a book, that can be true too.
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