Thinking about getting a dog. What do I need to know?

In My Humble Opinion
21

A lot more “breeding for profit” goes on by people “just doing it this once” and “local hobby breeders” than this statement lets on. Sure, there actually are responsible people trying to better a breed, but they are lost in a sea of irresponsible people.

I have personally met scores of people who think they will make a profit if their dog has puppies – it seems to be a baseline assumption by a lot of people.

You yourself said people are stupid and dump dogs just for growing older. The “Shelter dogs were dumped because they have problems, my puppies do not have problems” sales pitch is a major marketing tool for breeders. I regard it as a sign that the speaker has an agenda.

22

Some random thoughts:

How will your cats react to a dog? Do they have any experience with dogs in their house? It won’t be fair to them if they’re terrified, even if the dog is neutral or friendly towards them.

Definitely a fence.

A two-year-old medium-sized dog may live another 15 years. Your children will be 20 and 24 and probably long gone. It’s unlikely the 9 year old will walk the dog twice a day until he leaves home. Hopefully you parents will also take part in dog-walking and playing. (A fenced yard is great, but dogs are happier when they get to go places and for walkies with their humans.)

Some dogs are quite capable of chilling out for ten hours three days a week, but I’d for sure arrange with a dog walker or neighbor to let them out at least. I occasionally work long days and if I’m going to be gone longer for 8 hours, a neighbor comes over and lets the hounds out for a bit.

Your schedule doesn’t allow for a puppy (unless you can take it to work with you.)

Smart, working/herding/terrier type breeds are going to have more energy, need more exercise and stimulation and be more challenging, as a general rule.

After you’ve done your research and homework on general dog care and breeds, consider a rescue (either general or breed-specific) that has its available dogs in foster homes. The foster “parent” will be able to give you a knowledgeable assessment of the dog’s personality, traits, how it behaves with kids, cats, other animals and so on. I’ve fostered dogs for going on 20 years off and on and think that for newbie dog-owners, getting a dog with known traits is a safe route.

If you’re drawn towards a particular breed, take curlcoat’s advice and find a reputable breeder who may have adult dogs available - show dog that didn’t work out, or a dog that was returned to them, like that.

I’ve had dogs and cats living together for years. Dogs have included Rottweilers who have grown up with the cats, a JRT mix who also grew up with them (although I suspect she would kill a cat that wasn’t “hers”) and pit bull foster dogs. All my cats are dog-savvy, and obviously one of my criteria for a foster dog is “won’t kill my cats.” Last house: litter box was in the basement, with a cat-door cut into the door so the cats could go down but not the dogs. This house: litter box is in the mudroom, not accessible to the dogs. The cats are fed on top of the chest freezer, which is also in the mudroom.

A last thought on children walking dogs without adult supervision. Presumably you live in a place where it’s safe to walk a dog - no loose or stray dogs, etc. And that the child is fully capable of restraining and controlling the dog should something happen.

23

My suggestion to the 10 hours three days a week:

Doggie door! With a fenced yard, of course.

24

Oh, dear. I have apparently given the wrong impression about who would be caring for Hypothetical Dog. When I said that “The 9yo kid is responsible enough to take a dog for a couple of walks each day,” I didn’t mean to give the impression that the kid would be entirely responsible for the dog. Rather, I wanted to communicate that the kiddo is now independent and responsible enough to contribute to household pet care. The spouse and I would be primary caregivers, but the kid would be able to pitch in. I haven’t wanted to get a dog before because the kids have required so much of my time and attention that it wouldn’t be fair to the dog. However, now that the kids are getting bigger and more able to take care of themselves and contribute to the functioning of the household, getting a dog becomes a more reasonable proposition.

However, I am going to investigate fencing the yard more thoroughly.

25

I’m going to be the voice of dissent who says you can’t have a dog because you’re not home 24/7. I’m single. I work. I leave the house at 7:15 and don’t get back until about 6:00 in the evening. I have 6 dogs and 4 cats. My animals are never alone, they’re with each other. I think it’s hubris to think your dog’s world revolves totally around humans. They’re thrilled when I come home every evening, but I don’t think they hit the “pause” button when I leave in the morning. I do have a fenced yard (about 3/4 acre), and two of the horses are in a paddock on the other side of the fence. The dogs chase birds from the yard, nap, check out the ponies, nap, chase the dog with the dog toy, nap, snuffle the cats (which most of the cats seem to enjoy) - lather, rinse, repeat.

When I get home it’s happy happy joy joy, they run around (including the fields and woods across the road), then help me feed the horses. Then they get fed. They have a full life, only part of which includes me. I couldn’t imagine being a kid without a dog to tell my troubles to.

StG

26

A 3/4 acre fenced yard and six dogs is a very different environment to no fenced yard and a single dog.

27

One question I wish the animal shelter had asked me before I adopted a dog was:

How do you feel about dog feces on your carpet?
a- I don’t have any carpet
b- That’s no big deal
c- Um, what, really? Dog feces on the carpet?
d- It is too horrible to contemplate

28

Said hypothetical dog will be fine alone or with cats for 10 hrs. Crate train the dog and you will not have any issues when you return. And the dog can say “the cat did it” and you will know that it is true.

1st question and only is; Do you know how dogs learn?

If you don’t know how they learn then don’t get one. They need to be in an environment were everyone is consistant so that they will thrive.

If you know how a dog learns and you know how to train them then the fence is optional…

Not much worse than an obnoxious dog on the other side of a fence barking and carrying on because the owners didn’t bother to train the dog they just fenced it in.

Remember that the dog will never reach

this stage it will always be dependent on you for everything… The perpetual infant…

Any dog will get along with cats if you socilize it fully and tell it that it has to by your corrections…

Be the alpha dog in the pack and the dog the lowest member of the pack and it will be fine…

29

You would need a fenced in yard.

But before you even get to that point, nobody being there for 10 hours 3 days a week sounds like a deal breaker to me.

Also, the idea of kids and dogs sounds nice, but it doesn’t always work out that way. It can be more difficult to train a dog with kids around. Kids tend to not get the idea of respecting a dog’s personal space either. If the dog is used to it since it was a puppy, probably won’t be a problem, but I definitely wouldn’t recommend getting a puppy if you are away 10 hours a day. And an adult dog may not be OK with new kids constantly climbing on him/her. I wouldn’t count on kids to walk the dog either. Maybe at first, when the idea is new and exciting. But later on, when the dog pulls at the leash, and the weather isn’t nice… good luck.

30

I think you can have a dog. My recommendations would be:

ADOPT AN ADULT DOG FROM THE HUMANE SOCIETY. I think that an adult dog will be a better fit with your situation (really, most people are better off with an adult dog than the hassles of a puppy).
Sometimes adult dogs at the shelter are already housebroken, which is a nice bonus, but even if you have to housebreak the dog yourself, an adult dog will be able to learn a lot faster than a puppy. Like babies, puppies have a hard time “holding it” for very long and accidents are inevitable while it is learning to go outside.
Furthermore, it is easier to determine if an adult dog is willing to tolerate cats.
Dogs have different levels of “prey drive” and sometimes a puppy that is fine with cats initially can grow up to be cat-intolerant.
Ask the shelter staff if they have any older dogs that are known to be tolerant of cats and if possible, housebroken. While some of the animals that end up at the shelter are strays or were poorly trained by their idiot previous owner, chances are good that you can find an adult dog that already has some training. Many dogs end up at the shelter for reasons that are not their fault (for example, my local shelter recently received a 15 year old dog that was dumped at the shelter because the owner’s fiancee was allergic - to me, that is unfathomable, but people really do things like that to their pets).

My dog and cats were all adopted as adults, and believe me, I don’t feel that I missed out on anything because of it. They have all been good animals who fit in well with my family, because it’s easier to know what you’re getting when you adopt an adult animal. You can tell right away if it’s friendly or aloof, high energy or low energy, how big it will be, etc. without waiting for it to grow up!

I do think that a doggie door and fenced yard will make your life easier. I’ve known people who had to be away from home for long periods of time (including physicians who had to do overnight call) who used this method.
You could also look into hiring a dogwalker to stop by and take the dog out on those days when you’re not home. A lot of people on craigslist advertise these type of services.
Another option you could consider would be to take the dog to “Doggie Daycare” on those days when nobody is home. Check into some of the dog daycares around you and see if they are within your budget. I would make sure to take the dog to a daycare where they are allowed out of their cage to run and play. If the place just keeps the dogs kenneled all day, you might as well just have the dog crated at home.
The doggie daycare thing worked well for another lady I worked with at the hospital who often had long days (yet also had a very hyper little jack russell dog!).

31

If you don’t adopt that puppy, it will sit at the breeder’s home for a few more weeks (maybe) until someone else adopts it. Puppies are very popular so they usually get homes quickly, truly responsible breeders don’t breed more puppies than they know they have homes for, and good breeders would not allow an animal they bred to end up at the shelter.

On the other hand, if you don’t adopt that adult dog at the shelter, the odds are very good nobody else will give it a chance either and it will end up being euthanized. Anyone who has worked at a shelter can tell you that puppies and kittens find homes much more easily than adult dogs/cats do, even though the adult animal may actually be a better choice for many people’s situations. A lot of good dogs just aren’t lucky enough to be rescued in time.

The best way to combat irresponsible breeders is to boycott them and not encourage them to keep breeding animals. If they have trouble getting rid of one litter of puppies, at least that will teach them to not breed another after that and help prevent future puppies from suffering because of their poor choice to breed puppies.

32

I’m curious as to your reasons. The guy basically teaches responsible dog ownership: exercise them and train them not to bark at everything that moves. As someone who lives next to irresponsible dog owners with three barking mutts and a yard the size of a postage stamp, I would love to tie them up in the basement and make them watch about 50 eps of that show.

33

Curlcoat can help with information on this (she is a great source of dog info, along with PapSett), but I think you should research breeds, pick one you like (be HONEST with yourself!) and talk to breeders about taking in a retired show dog. A dog like that will come with all the support system that breeders provide, which FAR exceeds anything a shelter can do, and will be an extremely well trained adult.

Once you know more about dogs, you can look to rescue. The simple fact is, no matter how good it might make people “feel”, a shelter dog is often not ideal for a first time dog owner. It’s a bit of a crap shoot, and without experience, you won’t know how to deal with what it can throw you. A retired show dog is a known commodity. No surprises there. And forget the myths about pure breeds; they are just that, myths.

Best of luck. Oh, and do fence that yard. It is worth it!

ETA: talk to breeders about rescue as well. They are almost always involved in breed-specific rescue, which could be another good option for you if the retired show dog doesn’t work.

34

Well, at present, yes. But the position presented that it was better NOT to adopt that puppy. If everybody adopts that position, poor puppy is screwed.

And thus said puppy won’t get adopted.

I do agree with you; encouraging them is bad. I’m just saying if everyone boycotts the breeder, the poor puppy is just as screwed as the dog in the rescue shelter.

35

You’re conflating the goal with the method. The goal of well-behaved dogs is laudable; many people, however, disagree with the methods the man chooses to achieve that goal as being (a) not particularly effective and (b) potentially dangerous to both dog and trainer.

I’m not convinced (a) is an issue, since his own dogs seem very well behaved. But I’ve heard a lot of arguments along the lines of (b).

Other people might be able to provide more detail, but the person you were replying to was not saying “don’t teach responsible dog ownership” it was “don’t use Milan’s methods to achieve that goal, use other methods instead”.

36

This is ridiculous. Everyone is NOT going to stop adopting puppy mill pups at the same time. Most people don’t even know what a puppy mill is. There’s no excuse to use one if you know of their existence, though. Yes, somebody else who is uneducated about the existence of puppy mills will buy that damn dog.

OP please do not adopt a dog unless 1) you get a walker to let it out on those 10 hour days, or 2) your child is old enough to come home from school and take the dog outside immediately (and there are no extracurriculars that might keep him late). So when your kid is ~12 and no longer needs daycare to be home alone, that might be a better time to look into dog ownership (plus that gives you plenty of time to get a fence up). 8 hours is about the limit of time a new pet should spend without its human. Any more than that and you risk it getting destructive/shitting all over the place. Then you’ll want to return it to the pound, when it would have been better off without you adopting it in the first place.

There’s no reason a dog can’t be good for you in three years. You’d be making a much better-educated decision. But if you truly don’t want to wait, hire a dog walker.

37

Puppy mill dogs are put in shelters if they are not adopted. It’s a common practice. Back yard breeders do this as well. However, once they have to put a litter or two in the shelter, and don’t make any money, they may stop breeding dogs. That is a very good thing. If you buy a dog from them, they make money and will continue to breed, thereby damning many more dogs.

38

I am going to try to wade through all this. I would start with an older dog. One of the best sources for dogs with a predictable personality is the rescue dogs. These are dogs that lost their home, but were taken into a foster home to be retrained as necessary and placed in the right home for them. You may find a rescue near you starting at Dog Breeds - Types Of Dogs - American Kennel Club The rescues charge a fee to help cover their expenses, but is much less than the price of a puppy plus all its medical expenses the first year. Stay away from your terriers. Other breeds you have a better chance of the rescue having one that doesn’t regard cats as lunch.

I don’t like to see a dog left by itself 10 hours straight. I am a big believer in crates, but hate to see any dog left over 4-5 hours. If you can’t make it back to give it a mid day break, see if a neighbor or professional dog walker can. Doggy day care is a great idea too.

A fence is nice, but make sure it is too high to be jumped. Our 5’ one has contained many Labs and Shepherds. Our one smaller Lab once noticed she was on the far side of a fence from the pack. No problem, she went over a 4’ gate before I could get to it to open it. We did make do for years with a tether. You can set them up where you can reach it from a door. Fine for leaving the dog out a little to relieve itself.

The actor? The Anti-Cesar Millan / Ian Dunbar's been succeeding for 25 years with lure-reward dog training; how come he's been usurped by the flashy, aggressive TV host?

Responsible breeders? The net is full of them promoting their interests in the guise of giving advice. Much of their dog care knowledge is old wives tales passed on by generations of breeding mentors.

As for why dogs are dumped at shelters, http://www.apdt.com/veterinary/assets/pdf/Silvani_JF05.pdf

I do hope you have read through Dog food thread. What should we be feeding them? BARF? Iams? Snacks? Rawhides? Et al - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board An unusually high level discussion of canine nutrition with extensive input by well informed people. Not dominated by those with an agenda.

39

Basically, Milan does get results, but positive-only trainers get the same or better results without Milan’s questionable flirtation with use of force. Although I think he’s backed off a bit from advocating the alpha-roll, he did a lot of damage to the public’s perception of dogs when he was demonstrating it.

Ah, Dr. Ian Dunbar! I employed his well-known “How to handle a mouthy pup” advice before I even knew who he was – grabbed it off the Internet – and it’s worked better than any other written advice I’ve ever read.

Preach it. I occasionally try to point out that breeders have a financial conflict of interest when they give advice (which is, curiously, always “buy from a breeder”), but it’s hard, because people with a financial interest at stake can be pretty relentless.

40

There was a good PBS thing on dogs this week, about how the breeds have been manipulated over the centuries until most breeds don’t resemble the originals and are prone to problems. An interesting point is that some behaviors are now genetic, such as for hunting, killing (terriers) and herding dogs (shepherds, collies). If I was to get a first dog, I’d avoid the terrier groups and the herding groups. Many terriers are prone to biting and herding dogs require huge amounts of exercise to be healthy and happy.