# Third Party Candidates **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 21, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905 "2008-10-21T17:19:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/1 "2008-10-21T17:19:56Z")
I got my sample ballot today and will vote tomorrow. Here are all of the Presidential and Vice Presidential choices on my ballot: John McCain REP Sarah Palin Barack Obama DEM Joe Biden Gloria La Riva PSL Eugene Puryear Chuck Baldwin CPF Darrell Castle Gene Amondson PRO Leroy Pletten Bob Barr LBT Wayne A. Root Thomas Roberts Stevenns OBJ Alden Link James Harris SWP Alyson Kennedy Cynthia McKinney GRE Rosa Clemente Alan Keyes AIP Brian Rohrbough Ralph Nader ECO Matt Gonzalez Brian Moore SPF Stewart Alexander Charles Jay BTP John Wayne Smith So I am doing my due diligence and wondered what some (or most) of these parties were. Who would I vote for if I wanted to “throw my vote away”? Which of the third parties will get the most votes? Which is the most nutty, outrageous or just plain scary? This is a Florida ballot, btw, so your choices might differ. I’m going to go through and find out who each of these parties are, what they stand for, and a bit about their nominees. Some of them may be familiar to you. Feel free to jump in with your inputs, insights, experiences, your choices for best and worst of the list. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/2 "2008-10-21T17:30:31Z")
We’ll skip over the Republicans and Democrats. There’s enough other stuff out there on the web, the media, and on this site alone to fill volumes. Let’s look at “the little guys”. First up, the **PSL - Party for Socialism and Liberalism**. Party for Socialism and Liberalism, they have an image of Che Guevara on their website’s masthead. Obama will be shocked to learn that he is NOT the most liberal candidate out there. I mean, if he were, then one would expect that HE would have wrapped up the PSL nomination. From their website, they are: > [@](#): > > … a newly formed working class party of leaders and activists from many different struggles, founded to promote the movement for revolutionary change. > > Capitalism—the system in which all wealth and power is held by a tiny group of billionaires and their state—is the source of the main problems confronting humanity today: imperialist war, poverty, exploitation, layoffs, unemployment, racism, sexism, lesbian/gay/bi/trans oppression, environmental destruction, mass imprisonment, unionbusting, and more. > > We are fighting for socialism, a system where the wealth of society belongs to those who produce it, the working class, and is used in a planned and sustainable way for the benefit of all. In place of greed, domination and exploitation, we stand for solidarity, friendship and cooperation between all peoples. > …The PSL has been created to be a vehicle for the multinational working class in the struggle for socialism. > > Revolutionary Marxism requires a revolutionary party to flourish and develop. Marxism is not an abstract doctrine but rather a guide to action. It must be constantly tested by action and in debate. > > Our party seeks to bring together leaders and organizers from the many struggles taking place across the country. The most crucial requirement for membership is the dedication to undertake this most important and most necessary of all tasks — building a new revolutionary workers party in the heart of world imperialism. > > The long and corrosive history of slavery and racism in the United States places special demands on the party of the working class. In all our preparation, we strive to build working class unity by putting the struggle against racism as a central priority in the day-to-day work of the Party and the movement, and by affirming in practice Lenin’s principles of the rights of nations to self-determination and revolutionary, working-class internationalism. Only a multinational party can create the unity necessary to defeat the most powerful capitalist class the world has ever seen. > …Most of the people in the world today are suffering from economic depression and recession. The U.S. ruling class is holding its breath, well aware that when the U.S. capitalist economy is seized by the next severe crisis or downturn, it is likely to precipitate a global economic crisis of historic proportions. Under those circumstances, the rule of capitalism must face the challenge of a revived movement for socialism. That is our Party’s orientation. Marx’s prognosis and theory of revolution in the advanced capitalist societies will be validated by the revival of revolutionary socialism in the very center of imperialism. > > At the same time as we aim for revolution in the United States, we stand for defense of the existing workers states, the national liberation movements and for workers and oppressed people around the world in the crosshairs of U.S. imperialism. Only a party steeled in working class internationalism can hope to lead a revolution in the United States, the 21st Century prison house of nations. [Full information at their website here](http://www.pslweb.org/site/PageServer). From what I can find, La Riva has run for President on a number of previous occasions under various proletariat platforms and is a Castro fan. She was born in Albuquerque, NM, one of the toughest cities to spell. Her running mate, Puryear, is a 22 year old Harvard student, and thus not eligible to hold office, should he be magically elected. I’m going to say this sounds like a fun little party, earnest with a grip on 1930s socialist reality. If we get another Great Depression their time could be at hand. La Riva is kind of hot in a “woman of the working people sort of way”. I could see Selma Hayek playing the young La Riva in an arthouse film. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/3 "2008-10-21T17:58:06Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > From what I can find, La Riva has run for President on a number of previous occasions under various proletariat platforms and is a Castro fan. She was born in Albuquerque, NM, one of the toughest cities to spell. Her running mate, Puryear, is a 22 year old Harvard student, and thus not eligible to hold office, should he be magically elected. Howard, not Harvard. Not that that should dissuade anybody who’s thinking about voting for them. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/4 "2008-10-21T18:32:58Z")
Next on our list, **CPF - Constitution Party of Florida**. Ok, their website calls them the “Official Constitution Party of Florida” (accept no substitutes). They used to be called the US Taxpayers Party. Easy to see why they changed their name – no one _wants_ to be a taxpayer, that’s like calling yourself the Poor Working Slobs Party – on the other hand, it’s hard to say why any party would tie itself to only one state for a national election. I don’t think Florida quite has the required 270 electoral votes yet. Let’s forge on and learn more. Hmm, this is interesting: > [@](#): > > The Constitution Party, gratefully acknowledges the blessing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as Creator, Preserver and Ruler of the Universe and of these United States. We hereby appeal to Him for mercy, aid, comfort, guidance and the protection of His Providence as we work to restore and preserve these United States. > > This great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been and are afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here. > > The goal of the Constitution Party is to restore American jurisprudence to its Biblical foundations and to limit the federal government to its Constitutional boundaries. > > The Constitution of the United States provides that “no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.” The Constitution Party supports the original intent of this language. Therefore, the Constitution Party calls on all those who love liberty and value their inherent rights to join with us in the pursuit of these goals and in the restoration of these founding principles. Here are their (other) platform planks: > [@](#): > > **Sanctity of Life** : The pre-born child, whose life begins at fertilization, is a human being created in God’s image. The first duty of the law is to prevent the shedding of innocent blood. It is, therefore, the duty of all civil governments to secure and to safeguard the lives of the pre-born. > [@](#): > > AIDS: HIV / AIDS is a contagious disease which is dangerous to public health. It should not be treated as a civil rights issue. Under no circumstances should the federal government continue to subsidize activities which have the effect of encouraging perverted or promiscuous sexual conduct. Criminal penalties should apply to those whose willful acts of omission or commission place members of the public at risk of contracting HIV / AIDS. > [@](#): > > **Bring Government Back Home** :The closer civil government is to the people, the more responsible, responsive, and accountable it is likely to be. The Constitution, itself, in Articles I through VI, enumerates the powers which may be exercised by the federal government. Of particular importance is Article I, Section 8 which delineates the authority of the Congress. > > The federal government was clearly established as a government of limited authority. The Tenth Amendment to the Constitution specifically provides that: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” > > Over time, the limitations of federal government power imposed by the Constitution have been substantially eroded. Preservation of constitutional government requires a restoration of the balance of authority between the federal government and the States as provided in the Constitution, itself, and as intended and construed by those who framed and ratified that document. > > We pledge to be faithful to this constitutional requirement and to work methodically to restore to the States and to the people their rightful control over legislative, judicial, executive, and regulatory functions which are not constitutionally delegated to the federal government. > > We stand opposed to any regionalization of governments, at any level, which results in removal of decision-making powers from the people or those directly elected by the people. Sorry, that one was a bit long, but it was kind of hard to just pull a piece of that and make any sense of it. I’m having trouble making sense of it’s entirety. Anyone want to translate? > [@](#): > > **Character and Moral Conduct** :Public respect and esteem toward public officials has fallen to a shameful level. The Constitution Party finds that a cause of this national state of disgrace is the deterioration of personal character among government leaders, exacerbated by the lack of public outcry against immoral conduct by public office holders. Our party leaders and public officials must display exemplary qualities of honesty, integrity, reliability, moral uprightness, fidelity, prudence, temperance, justice, fortitude, self-restraint, courage, kindness, and compassion. If they cannot be trusted in private life, neither can they be trusted in public life. Ok, this stuff goes on for a while, so I’ll give a synopsis of the rest: \*\*Congress \*\*is bloated, overpaid, overstaffed and shouldn’t receive pensions. **Conscription** (the draft) should be illegal. Oppose any **Constitutional Conventions** (even though they seem to want a theocracy). Congress should retain control of **Copyrights and Patents**. Against\*\* Big Government \*\*and against the high **national debt**. States should be responsible for controlling **crime and executing criminals** (see Sanctity of Life section above). Also against designating crimes as “hate crimes” since that would federalize crimes. Strong on **defense** ; against disarmament and withdrawal from foreign bases (Panama is specifically cited as an example). “ **Domestic federal “aid”** not authorized by the Constitution is not only illegal, it is immoral.” Against **Drug Abuse** and support states rights to limit drug traffic, but caution against impingement on civil liberties. **Education** : > [@](#): > > All teaching is related to basic assumptions about God and man. Education as a whole, therefore, cannot be separated from religious faith. The law of our Creator assigns the authority and responsibility of educating children to their parents. Education should be free from all federal government subsidies, including vouchers, tax incentives, and loans, except with respect to veterans. Want to abolish the Department of Education, essentially saying that parents should educate their children, so I guess they want everyone to home school in the way that god intended. For **election reform,** including repeal of the Voting Rights Act of 1974, Federal Election Campaign Act, Federal Election Commission and McCain-Feingold. Reform of the **Electoral College** to pre-1830s format. Abolish the Department of **Energy,** yet focus on making the US self-sustaining with regards to energy. It is god’s wish that we protect and preserve the\*\* environment\*\*, but they call for the repeal of Wetlands and Environmental protections, the abolishment of the Endangered Species Act and protection against Imminent Domain. Against the use of **Executive Orders**. **Family** : Marriage is between a man and his woman. Against “unnatural acts”, homosexual unions of any kind. Families should be allowed to discipline their children as they see fit. Against adoption by singles or homosexual couples. “We affirm both the authority and duty of Congress to limit the appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court in all cases of state sodomy laws in accordance with the U.S. Constitution, Article II, Section 2.” For **Guns** , Against **Gambling** , Against \*\*World Government \*\*and call for withdrawal from the **United Nations** and NATO, strict isolationist including abolition of **Foreign Aid**. Against **Government Health Care** and favor a moratorium on Immigration except in extreme hardship cases (going for the Cuban vote?) Against lifetime terms for **Justices** and support that Judge in Alabama who wanted to post the Ten Commandments. Repeal the **Federal Reserve Act** and go back to banking the way that the constitution original described. Support **free speech** by **abolishing obscenity** (at least that’s how I read it, didn’t make sense. Oppose tyranny of the Federal Government to regulate **religious expression** in any place (see Alabama Courthouse and Ten Commandments) Phase out S **ocial Security**. Oppose \*\*statehood \*\*for DC or PR. **State Sovereignty** : “The federal government has no authority to mandate policies relating to state education, natural resources, transportation, private business, housing, health care, ad infinitum.” For **Tariffs** , Against **NAFTA,** **GATT** and the **WTO**. **Taxes** : "We propose legislation to abolish the Internal Revenue Service, and will veto any authorization, appropriation, or continuing resolution which contains any funding whatsoever for that illicit and unconstitutional agency. We are opposed to the flat-rate tax, national sales tax, and value added tax proposals that are being promoted as an improvement to the current tax system. The Sixteenth Amendment does not provide authority for an un-apportioned direct tax. Moreover, it is our intention to replace, with a tariff based revenue system supplemented by excise taxes, the current tax system of the U.S. government (including income taxes, payroll taxes, and estate taxes.)" **Terrorism and Personal Liberty** : “We deplore and vigorously oppose legislation and executive action, that deprive the people of their rights secured under the Fourth and Fifth Amendments under the guise of “combating terrorism” or “protecting national security.” Examples of such legislation are the National Security Act, the USA PATRIOT Act, and the proposed Domestic Securities Enhancement Act (colloquially known as “Patriot II”).” For **Veterans** and Veterans Benefits. Against **Wage and Price Controls**. \*\*Welfare \*\*is against the Bible commandment condemning theft and should be replaced with Christian Charity. Whew, that was fun. I’d rate these guys as first rate Christian nutters with some libertarian and isolationist tendencies, where it doesn’t interfere with their right to condemn pornography or “unnatural” and immoral lifestyles. Recommend this Party to your fundamentalist friends and relatives who are mistakenly thinking about voting for Palin/McCain in 08. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/5 "2008-10-21T18:34:34Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Howard, not Harvard. Not that that should dissuade anybody who’s thinking about voting for them. Sorry, wasn’t wearing my glasses. I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/6 "2008-10-21T18:45:25Z")
Left out information about Chuck Baldwin and Darrell Castle. Baldwin was a Republican but became disillusioned with Bush and has criticized him and Cheney as being “too liberal”. He was head of Florida’s Moral Majority and founder of the Pensacola Church of the Crossroads (it’s seen as a bit of a cult in Florida, don’t know about other places). From Wiki: Baldwin summarizes Muslim persecution of Christians by saying, “Only communism rivals Islam in sheer numbers of people persecuted and killed.” List Andrew Jackson, Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee along with George Washington Carver, Booker T. Washington and several biblical and historical figures (Abraham, Elijah, Martin Luther, etc). He sees Abraham Lincoln and Woodrow Wilson as the two worst American presidents. He endorsed Ron Paul and Wiki claims that Ron Paul has endorsed him. Baldwin beat out Alan Keyes at the Constitution Party national convention. Darrell Castle, a Memphis lawyer, was named as his running mate. Castle is a retired Marine. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/7 "2008-10-21T18:46:11Z")
Since the Libertarians have a somewhat well-known candidate this year in Barr, I think they’ll get a few more votes than the Greens or Nader as an independent. The Constitution Party always struck me as pretty crazy. The Natural Law Party was WAAAY out there, but I see they’ve gone the way of the Maharishi. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/8 "2008-10-21T19:38:50Z")
Let’s see if the next one on the list, the **PRO - the Prohibition Party**. I think this one might have trouble recruiting on college campuses. Not often you see prohibition and party in the same sentence. Before I forget, here’sGene Amondson’s weblink. There is a clip there of his guest spot on The Daily Show. He also has a MySpace page, but I’ll leave that to the curious reader to find for himself. Their platforms is summed in the following bullet points. They don’t seem to put too much effort into it. I guess they know that no one is going to take them too seriously. > [@](#): > > \*\*Values of the Prohibition Party > > MORAL ISSUES\*\*: > > For Right to Life > > Against Commercial Gambling > > Against the Homosexual Agenda > > Against Commercial Pornography > > For the Right to Prayer and Bible Reading in the Public Schools > > Against Commercial Sale of Alcohol and Other Harmful Drugs > \*\* > DOMESTIC ISSUES\*\* > > Tax Reforms > > Judicial Reforms > > Ballot Law Reform > > Against Judicial Activism > > Campaign Finance Reform > > Balanced Federal Budget > > Local Control of Schools > > Restore State and Local Rights > > Uphold Genuine Constitutional Rights > Foreign Affairs > > Preserve U.S. Sovereignty > > Concerns About the Role of the United Nations > > Concerns About International Trade Agreements Summary, old school fundamental, nutty but insignificant. Amondson is from Alaska, so maybe he’ll siphon off some Palin votes. He lists his profession as a “Temperance Lecturer” and does impersonations of prohibitionist Billy Sunday. His running mate, Leroy Pletten, “a historian and anti-alcohol advocate – first joined the Prohibition Party in 1998. Since then, he’s become State Chair in Michigan and the National Secretary of the party. Pletten, 58, was originally from Minnesota. He each his B.A. degree in history from the University of Minnesota in 1967 and later served as a civilian employee of the Army. He lost a race for local school board in 2003 as the party’s nominee (6%) – but notes in party literature that he’s “been elected twice to the board of directors of his condominium owner’s association.”” ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/9 "2008-10-21T21:49:30Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > ..but notes in party literature that he’s “been elected twice to the board of directors of his condominium owner’s association.”" But where is his executive experience? I fear that I cannot vote for him because of this.😃 ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/10 "2008-10-22T03:25:40Z")
Next up, **LBT - Libertarian Party**. This one has appeal to a lot of people, at least in purely hypothetical form, and through folks like Ayn Rand the message is out there. > [@](#): > > Americans know that the answer to today’s problems is not more government, and Bob will work tirelessly to cut taxes, reduce government spending and restore our civil liberties lost during the Bush administration. Having seen the true nature of government from inside and out, only Bob Barr has the qualifications, the passion, and the commitment to work for the American people in their interest — not the government’s. > > Since 1997, Bob has been a board member of the National Rifle Association, and quickly became the vanguard of gun rights during his four terms in Congress. In 2003, Bob became a member of a project at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University addressing matters of privacy and security, and also began work at the American Conservative Union as the 21st Century Liberties Chair for Freedom and Privacy. For his work on protecting the privacy and civil liberties of all Americans, legendary New York Times columnist William Safire dubbed Bob “Mr. Privacy.” > > If there is one candidate who consistently comes down on the side of the American people’s rights, it is Bob Barr. Bob knows the answer is less government, and has proven that he will deliver the real change necessary to lead America into a new era of prosperity and freedom. Let’s see where they stand on the issues: > [@](#): > > **Spending & The Economy** > The government cannot continue spending at this rate if America is to remain competitive in the global marketplace. The new administration’s number one job will be to drastically reduce spending by limiting federal outlays to only the government’s legitimate functions, as provided in the United States Constitution. > [@](#): > > **Entitlement Programs** > In general, private charity should be the first resort for anyone in need. In 2007, for example, Americans gave more than $300 billion to charity, an increase over 2006 despite growing economic uncertainty. Government should eliminate regulatory barriers that inhibit private philanthropy, and expand tax deductions to encourage charitable giving. > [@](#): > > **Energy Policy** > Government intervention, whether through more regulations or more subsidies (or both), hurts consumers in the end. The free market, driven by consumer choice and reflecting the real cost of resources, should be the foundation of America’s energy policy. The federal government should eliminate restrictions that inhibit energy production, as well as all special privileges for the production of politically-favored fuels, such as ethanol. > [@](#): > > \*\*Privacy & Surveillance > \*\*We may not yet be in the nightmare world of George Orwell’s classic novel “1984”, but time is fast running out for a society that values freedom and liberty. Certainly, the government must be able to confront crime and terrorism, but its powers must be limited to those truly necessary to protect Americans and which are consistent with the Constitution. Also, government officials must always be accountable for their actions. > [@](#): > > **Iraq War** > The invasion and occupation of Iraq were two separate mistakes, which collectively have cost thousands of American lives and hundreds of billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars. Every day that the occupation in Iraq continues without a withdrawal plan is a day that more American blood and treasure (some $400 million a day) is needlessly wasted. > [@](#): > > **Foreign Intervention & Foreign Bases** > It is time to reemphasize the word “defense” in national defense. By maintaining a military presence in more than 130 nations around the world in more than 700 installations, with hundreds of thousands of troops deployed overseas, the U.S. spends more to protect the soil of other nations than our own. Bringing these soldiers home would better protect America while saving lives and money. > [@](#): > > **Veterans** > Defending the liberties that we enjoy in the United States by serving in the Armed Forces is one of life’s most honorable pursuits. Our veterans who have sacrificed much and risked all to protect America, often paying in their own blood, deserve our support both during their time of duty and thereafter. > [@](#): > > **Health Care** > Federal health care programs, most notably Medicare and Medicaid, have become financially unsustainable. These programs need to be transformed to emphasize patient choice, focus on the truly needy, and add cost-saving incentives. Here, too, market principles should be applied to bring better quality health care at less cost. > [@](#): > > **Education & Home Schooling** > School reform starts by shifting control over education from government to parents. We must abolish the Department of Education, eliminate federal grants and regulations, and begin moving power back to the states and local communities. States should consider tax credits or deductions for parents who home school or send their children to private schools. Public schools should be managed locally, increasing accountability and parental involvement. > [@](#): > > **Property Rights & Eminent Domain** > Allowing governments, at any level, to confiscate property without a compelling justification represents a serious attack on fundamental liberty. Government’s most basic duty is to protect individual rights, including that of private property ownership, not to diminish them. > [@](#): > > **Second Amendment** > America’s Founders viewed the Second Amendment as necessary to protect the citizen, states and the nation from tyranny both domestic and foreign. Blackstone’s Commentaries termed this right as “the true palladium of liberty.” … I oppose any law requiring registration of, or restricting the ownership, manufacture, or transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition to law-abiding citizens. > [@](#): > > **Taxes** > Tax reform is desperately needed in the United States; but before we can reform the tax code, we must sharply reduce the tax burden on Americans made necessary. Second, we need a tax code that makes taxation fairer and simpler for all citizens. Meaningful tax reform begins with reining in government spending. > [@](#): > > **Border Security & Immigration** > There is no perfect immigration reform. The government must balance security and sovereignty concerns, which necessitate controlling the border, with the economic benefits of immigration. The best policy would be to stop illegal immigrant flows while accepting more of the world’s economically productive who want to come to America. > [@](#): > > \*\*Racism & Equality > \*\*The Declaration of Independence states that all men are created equal. Government should make no law that discriminates based on race, religion, sexuality or any other personal characteristic. Government laws should respect each person as an individual and treat them equally as such. > [@](#): > > **Marriage** > Regardless of whether one supports or opposes same sex marriage, the decision to recognize such unions ought to be made by each state rather than imposed as a one-size-fits-all mandate by the federal government. Any federal laws that prevent states from determining their own standards for marriage should be repealed; the federal government should not define marriage, whether by statute or constitutional amendment. > [@](#): > > **Monetary Policy** > The Federal Reserve is a secretive and unaccountable organization which dominates monetary policy, regulates financial institutions, and increasingly intervenes in economic markets. Congress must insist on accountability and transparency in the Federal Reserve’s operation, while reconsidering the Fed’s almost total control over the money supply. Barr is a former Republican Congressman who represented Georgia. His running mate, Wayne A. Root, is an entreprenuer, television producer best-selling author, and professional sports handicapper, based in Las Vegas, Nevada. I’ve heard his name a lot on local Sports Talk radio commercials, promising to help me beat the Vegas Odds makers. A strange combination. In their favor, these guys do put together a nice, easy to access website: [http://www.bobbarr2008.com/](http://www.bobbarr2008.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/11 "2008-10-22T10:14:52Z")
First, thanks for the very interesting thread. I’m looking forward to the rest of them. I find it fascinating that the loony-right Constitution fan has an even more left plank in their platform than any other party: the nationalization of close to every single industry. It’s almost as though they didn’t realize the consequences of seizing every scrap of intellectual property in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/12 "2008-10-22T11:50:00Z")
I just got my mail in ballot and less than half of those listed in the OP are on it. Baldwin, Barr, Nader, McKinney and of course, McCain and Obama. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/13 "2008-10-22T13:46:40Z")
> [@Ataraxy](#): > > I just got my mail in ballot and less than half of those listed in the OP are on it. Baldwin, Barr, Nader, McKinney and of course, McCain and Obama. Do you vote in Florida or somewhere else? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/14 "2008-10-22T13:59:39Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > It’s almost as though they didn’t realize the consequences of seizing every scrap of intellectual property in the US. Assassinations and civil war? ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/15 "2008-10-22T16:17:26Z")
> [@Ataraxy](#): > > I just got my mail in ballot and less than half of those listed in the OP are on it. Florida used to have some of the most restrictive ballot access laws in the country, but now has perhaps the most generous. Most of us will have fewer choices than the OP. In particular, I’ve never seen the Prohibitionists on the ballot in Illinois. How am I supposed to Fight for my Right to **Not Party**? ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/16 "2008-10-22T16:46:45Z")
Next up, OBJ - the **[Objectivist Party](http://www.objectivistparty.us/6401.html)**. > [@](#): > > [1xSlots Official Website | Login](http://www.objectivistparty.us/6401.html) . They’re entire Platform seems to exist of Ayn Rand quotes, so if Ayn was your girl, and whose girl wasn’t she, the little minx, then this may be the Political Party for you! > [@](#): > > The basic political principle of the Objectivist ethics is: no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. No man - or group of society or government - has the right to assume the role of a criminal and initiate the use of physical compulsion against any man. Men have the right to use physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use. (Ayn Rand: “The Objectivist Ethics,” VOS, 31; pb 32.) > > Politics…defines the principles of a proper social system. As an example of philosophy’s function, political philosophy will not tell you how much rationed gas you should be given and on which day of the week - it will tell you whether the government has the right to impose any rationing on anything. (Ayn Rand: “Philosophy: Who Needs It,” PWNI, 4; pb4.) > > It is political philosophy that sets the goals and determines the course of a country’s practical politics. But political philosophy means: abstract theory to identify, explain and evaluate the trend of events, to discover their causes, project their consequences, define the problems and offer the solutions. (Ayn Rand: “The Chickens’ Homecoming,” NL, 109.) > > The “libertarians”…plagiarize Ayn Rand’s principle that no man may initiate the use of physical force, and treat it as a mystically revealed, out-of-context absolute…In the philosophical battle for a free society, the one crucial connection to be upheld is that between capitalism and reason. The religious conservatives are seeking to tie capitalism to mysticism; the “libertarians” are tying capitalism to the whim-worshipping subjectivsim and chaos of anarchy. To cooperate with either group is to betray capitalism, reason, and one’s own future. (Harry Binswanger: “Q & A Department: Anarchism,” TOF, Aug. 1981, 12.), > > America’s founding ideal was the principle of individual rights. Nothing more - and nothing less. The rest - everything that America achieved, everything she became, everything “noble and just,” and heroic, and great, and unprecedented in human history - was the logical consequence of fidelity to that one principle. The first consequence was the principle of political freedom, i.e., an individual’s freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by the government. The next was the economic implementation of political freedom: the system of capitalism. (Ayn Rand: “A Preview,” ARL, I, 24,5.) > > The only proper purpose of a government is to protect man’s rights, which means: to protect him from physical violence. A proper government is only a policeman, acting as an agent of man’s self-defense, and, as such, may resort to force only against those who start the use of force. The only proper functions of government are: the police, to protect you from criminals; the army, to protect you from foreign invaders; and the courts, to protect your property and contracts from breach or fraud by others, to settle disputes by rational rules, according to objective law. (Ayn Rand: Galt’s Speech, FNI, 231; pb 183.) > > The source of the government’s authority is “the consent of the governed.” This means that the government is not the ruler, but the servant or agent of the citizens; it means that the government as such has no rights except the rights delegated to it by the citizens for a specific purpose. (“The Nature of Government,” VOS, 149; pb 110.) I figured I’d make it easy on myself and quote this in it’s entirety since it is quoted, in it’s entirety, and also annotated. Original thinkers, they’re not. Dr. Tom Stevens is a professor, attorney & politician running for the office of President of the United States in the 2008 United States presidential election. Dr. Stevens is running for the Objectivist Party. “Dr. Tom Stevens has appeared on over 200 national talk shows. He is the host of “In Focus”, a television show. Dr. Stevens graduated from New York University and Hofstra University School of Law.” - Wikipedia Stevens founded the party and was also previously a Ron Paul supporter. He adds, in his website bio: “Dr. Stevens is a true adventurer. He has visited 49 of the 50 states (all but Alaska) and has travelled to Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, England, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Mexico, Monaco, Norway, South Africa, Sweden, The Kingdom of the Netherlands and Vatican City. During those trips, he has jet skied, gone parasailing, white water rafting, speed boating and deep sea fishing. He has visited countless Native Nation reservations, taken Eco-Tourism Excursions in Oregon, been on a number of Photo Safaris in Sabi Sabi, South Africa, visited the natural wonders of 5 Hawaiian Islands (which included a small plane fly-by of the leper colony on Molokai), hiked through the Black Hills of South Dakota (in the footsteps of Teddy Roosevelt), skied in the Swiss Alps, spotted elk in Banff, saw the fallout of the eruption of Mount St. Helens first hand, and risked arrest meeting anti-government political leaders in secret locations in the rural areas of the Republic of South Africa while on a diplomatic trip to that country.” Alden Link sought, but obviously did not get, the Libertarian Presidential nod, so now he’s second banana on this ticket. His bio at the Objectivist site says “Alden Link is an entrepreneur, real estate developer and aviator.” He thinks that nuclear energy holds great promise, and that radical Islam and illegal immigration are our greatest threats. It doesn’t say, but I’ll infer, that he also likes long moonlit walks on the beach, drinking pina coladas and getting caught in the rain. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/17 "2008-10-22T17:00:42Z")
Well, I must say that any candidate who has taken “Eco-Tourism Excursions in Oregon” has to be very seriously considered! If only he had condo board experience… Seriously, thanks for putting this up, **Shib** , very entertaining and educational! I am just popping in to confirm that, per the current _New Yorker_’s article on Bob Barr, Ron Paul has indeed endorsed the Monster Raving Loony, uh, I mean, Constitution Party candidate. This relieves Mr. Paul of the small amount of my respect he had previously enjoyed. Looking over their platform, what on Earth does “Reform of the Electoral College to pre-1830s format” mean?? Only property-owning white men get to vote? Or do black men count for 3/5?? I’m sure if I did more than just skim their platform I could come up with a lot more 😕. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/18 "2008-10-22T17:10:53Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > I am just popping in to confirm that, per the current _New Yorker_’s article on Bob Barr, Ron Paul has indeed endorsed the Monster Raving Loony, uh, I mean, Constitution Party candidate. This relieves Mr. Paul of the small amount of my respect he had previously enjoyed. Looking over their platform, what on Earth does “Reform of the Electoral College to pre-1830s format” mean?? Only property-owning white men get to vote? Or do black men count for 3/5?? I’m sure if I did more than just skim their platform I could come up with a lot more 😕. Here is that section of [their platform](http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php) _in toto_: > [@](#): > > Electoral College > > ``` > Article II, Section I of the U.S. Constitution states, in part: "Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of senators and representatives to which the state may be entitled in the Congress: but no senator or representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector." This established our Electoral College. > > ``` > > Although the Constitution does not require the states to adhere to any specific manner in electing these electors or how they cast their votes, it suggests, by its wording, that prominent individuals from each congressional district, and from the state at large, would be elected or appointed as electors that represent that district. Under this arrangement, a voter would vote for three individuals, one to represent his district and two “at large” representatives to represent his state. These electors, in turn, would then carefully and deliberately select the candidate for president. Under this system each congressional district could, in essence, select a different candidate. The candidate with the most electors nationwide would become the next president. > > This was the general procedure used until the 1830’s, at which time all the states, except for South Carolina, changed to a “general ticket.” > > The “general ticket” system is still in use today. Inherently, it causes corruption by the inequitable transfer of power from congressional districts to the states and large cities at the expense of rural communities. > > The Constitution Party encourages states to eliminate the “general ticket” system and return to the procedure intended by the Framers. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/19 "2008-10-22T17:59:08Z")
Those considering voting the Boston Tea Party ticket should be aware that the party has split in two. Presidential nominee Charles Jay has led his faction out of the national organization following an endorsement dispute with national chairman Jim Davidson. Jay now represents the Boston Tea Party of Florida. As for their platform, it has the virtue of conciseness. Here it is in its entirety: > [@](#): > > The Boston Tea Party supports reducing the size, scope and power of government at all levels and on all issues, and opposes increasing the size, scope and power of government at any level, for any purpose. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905/20 "2008-10-22T18:10:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Those considering voting the Boston Tea Party ticket should be aware that the party has split in two. Presidential nominee Charles Jay has led his faction out of the national organization following an endorsement dispute with national chairman Jim Davidson. Jay now represents the Boston Tea Party of Florida. > > As for their platform, it has the virtue of conciseness. Here it is in its entirety: The Boston Tea Party of Florida is probably the one on my ballot. But after that dust up we had with the Boston Red Sox last week I probably won’t be casting my ballot for anything with Boston in the title. I do have a Boston Cream Cake in the fridge, though. One of Mrs Shibb’s co-workers is from the area and likes to give those to her. Not sure if it was for gloating about the Sox or penance for their loss. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/third-party-candidates/468905.md?page=2)