# Thirty Dots - thirteen scoring fields, five dice, three rolls and you. **URL:** \ **Category:** Marketplace\ **Created:** [April 28, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087 "2011-04-28T22:52:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/21 "2011-05-26T00:12:46Z")
> [@gurujulp](#): > > I have not noticed this. > > Are the people who aren’t having these runs of luck not posting? > > Confirmation Bias in action! The probability of getting four or more quinces in a single game is on the order of 1 \* 10[sup]-8[/sup]. If I could play one game a minute, I’d have to play for about 200 years before I would expect to see that once. It’s not impossible that I just got really lucky, but it’s far more likely that the random number generation is wonky. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/22 "2011-05-26T19:35:20Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > The probability of getting four or more quinces in a single game is on the order of 1 \* 10[sup]-8[/sup]. If I could play one game a minute, I’d have to play for about 200 years before I would expect to see that once. It’s not impossible that I just got really lucky, but it’s far more likely that the random number generation is wonky. I’m not sure that is correct- I’ve read the odds of getting 5 of a kind in a 3-roll turn is around 1 in 22, so getting 4 in a **row** is only 1 in 230,000ish, so 4 in a game would be much more likely than that. Were you calculating based on getting the 5 of a kinds in one roll only? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/23 "2011-05-26T21:34:55Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > I’m not sure that is correct- I’ve read the odds of getting 5 of a kind in a 3-roll turn is around 1 in 22, so getting 4 in a **row** is only 1 in 230,000ish, so 4 in a game would be much more likely than that. Were you calculating based on getting the 5 of a kinds in one roll only? Yes. That’s a somewhat embarrassing mistake. So the probability of seeing four or more in a game is still on the order of 1/500. It’s still rare enough that it makes me wonder about the randomizer, given that I’ve played a lot of Yahtzee and haven’t ever seen more than two, but it’s not quite so spectacular. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/24 "2011-05-26T23:04:14Z")
Here’s some statistics on the quinces… ```auto +------------+----------+ | num_quints | count(*) | +------------+----------+ | 0 | 438 | | 1 | 208 | | 2 | 53 | | 3 | 9 | | 4 | 1 | +------------+----------+ ``` 709 games have been played, so the one in 500 chance sounds about right. I wonder how long it will take to get five… The page is written in javascript (well, 99% of the page), so the actual randomization of the numbers is going to be dependent on the browser, much more than the javascript code itself. I’m not tracking whose on what browser though - Ender, what are you running? > [@ultrafilter](#): > > It’s still rare enough that it makes me wonder about the randomizer, given that I’ve played a lot of Yahtzee and haven’t ever seen more than two, but it’s not quite so spectacular. This is actually one of the reasons I wrote this (and am saving stats). I wanted to know what the probability of getting a five of a kind during a game was, because I remember as a kid playing Yahtzee with my grandparents, and it seemed like the grown-ups always got at least one, and often two. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/25 "2011-05-26T23:51:15Z")
I’ve added stats on what we’d expect to see from a fair randomizer, and it looks reasonable. I guess I just got really lucky. ```auto +------------+----------+--------+ | num_quints | count(*) | E(*) | +------------+----------+--------+ | 0 | 438 | 387.26 | | 1 | 208 | 239.73 | | 2 | 53 | 68.49 | | 3 | 9 | 11.96 | | 4 | 1 | 1.42 | +------------+----------+--------+ ``` ---
**Author:** ![I\_Know\_Nothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f04885/32.png) [@I\_Know\_Nothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Know_Nothing)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/26 "2011-05-26T23:56:59Z")
It took seven tries to break 200. Then I got a 518. Ones (3) 2 Twos (6) 6 Threes (9) 15 Fours (12) 12 Fives (15) 15 Sixes (18) 18 Pip Score 68 Bonus (37) 37 Pip Total 105 Poker plays Score Three of a kind 26 Four of a kind 25 Full House 25 Small Straight 30 Large Straight 40 Quinces 250 Chance 17 Poker Plays Score 413 Grand Total 518 ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/27 "2011-05-27T17:57:36Z")
> [@Zyada](#): > > The page is written in javascript (well, 99% of the page), so the actual randomization of the numbers is going to be dependent on the browser, much more than the javascript code itself. I’m not tracking whose on what browser though - Ender, what are you running? I’ve run it on three systems so far. IE, Safari, and my iPod. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/28 "2011-05-27T19:11:09Z")
Interesting bug/feature. I marked down “0” for my slot for quince and then rolled a quince. I put it in another slot and at the end of the game, the computer gave me 100 points for this quince. So by putting it somewhere else, I actually ended up netting 50 additional points. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/29 "2011-05-28T10:22:47Z")
If Zyada is trying to mimic the Y-word then it should not give the 100 quince bonus unless you have already received the 50 points. As it is now there is no reason to not use quinces as an early discard for a bad hand. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/30 "2011-05-28T10:42:23Z")
Is there a way to access the statistics from the user level? I’d like that… Oh, and just now, instead of, as usually, giving a statistic related to the throw just made (which is my favourite feature), it told me ‘All troubles you have can pass away very quickly’. Somewhat… disquieting. I love it – are there any other ominous predictions? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2011, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/31 "2011-05-30T12:12:19Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Interesting bug/feature. > > I marked down “0” for my slot for quince and then rolled a quince. I put it in another slot and at the end of the game, the computer gave me 100 points for this quince. > > So by putting it somewhere else, I actually ended up netting 50 additional points. > [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > If Zyada is trying to mimic the Y-word then it should not give the 100 quince bonus unless you have already received the 50 points. As it is now there is no reason to not use quinces as an early discard for a bad hand. Thirded - I just got that too. And yes, that makes your first quince worth 100 points instead of 50 if you’ve already zeroed out the quince. It’s even worse than Mr Shine says - there is no downside whatever to zeroing out quince straight away! ---
**Author:** ![I\_Know\_Nothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f04885/32.png) [@I\_Know\_Nothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Know_Nothing)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/32 "2011-05-31T17:16:06Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Thirded - I just got that too. And yes, that makes your first quince worth 100 points instead of 50 if you’ve already zeroed out the quince. It’s even worse than Mr Shine says - there is no downside whatever to zeroing out quince straight away! Hold on a second… I did just that, but I got another quince later and I only got 100 pts total, see below. Both were five sixes. I put the first in the pips, and the second one by four of a kind. Ones (3) 2 Twos (6) 4 Threes (9) 3 Fours (12) 12 Fives (15) 15 Sixes (18) **30** Pip Score 66 Bonus (37) 37 Pip Total 103 Poker plays Score Three of a kind 0 Four of a kind **30** Full House 25 Small Straight 30 Large Straight 0 Quinces **100** Chance 23 Poker Plays Score 208 Grand Total 311 I think you are still better off getting 100 for the first quince, and having that space available discards, than losing 50 pts for the rarer second quince though. Well, maybe if you want to go for the rarer ultra high point games, you can play by the normal rules. But if you want a steadier higher point games, use the quince as your first discard. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Know\_Nothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f04885/32.png) [@I\_Know\_Nothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Know_Nothing)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/33 "2011-05-31T17:25:53Z")
As far as the randomization goes, it often looks surprisingly not random On a radio show a while ago I listened to this math professor do this experiment where she would take 2 pairs of students and have one pair flip a coin 100 times and write down the results. The other pair was tasked with trying to mimic a random set of 100 coin flips. She could always spot the fake, because it never had more than 2 or 3 h/t in a row. What seemed perfectly random to the students, at first glance, was obviously not random to the teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/34 "2011-06-01T13:40:55Z")
> [@I\_Know\_Nothing](#): > > Hold on a second… > > I did just that, but I got another quince later and I only got 100 pts total, see below. Both were five sixes. I put the first in the pips, and the second one by four of a kind. > > Ones (3) 2 > Twos (6) 4 > Threes (9) 3 > Fours (12) 12 > Fives (15) 15 > Sixes (18) **30** > Pip Score 66 > Bonus (37) 37 > Pip Total 103 > Poker plays Score > Three of a kind 0 > Four of a kind **30** > Full House 25 > Small Straight 30 > Large Straight 0 > Quinces **100** > Chance 23 > Poker Plays Score 208 > Grand Total 311 > I think you are still better off getting 100 for the first quince, and having that space available discards, than losing 50 pts for the rarer second quince though. > > Well, maybe if you want to go for the rarer ultra high point games, you can play by the normal rules. But if you want a steadier higher point games, use the quince as your first discard. Interestingly, I just got three quinces for the first time ever, after zeroing it out first. Ones (3) 1 Twos (6) 6 Threes (9) 3 Fours (12) 8 Fives (15) **25** Sixes (18) 18 Pip Score 61 Bonus (37) 0 Pip Total 61 Poker plays Score Three of a kind 13 Four of a kind **30** Full House **25** Small Straight 30 Large Straight 40 Quinces 300 Chance 12 Poker Plays Score 450 Grand Total 511 Darn thing stiffed me on the fours at the end so I missed out on the top-half bonus, but otherwise it went a treat. I wonder if you scored your second quince on the _last_ turn - the 100-point bonus only shows up on the turn after you make it. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/35 "2011-06-01T19:59:09Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Is there a way to access the statistics from the user level? I’d like that… > > Oh, and just now, instead of, as usually, giving a statistic related to the throw just made (which is my favourite feature), it told me ‘All troubles you have can pass away very quickly’. Somewhat… disquieting. I love it – are there any other ominous predictions? I don’t know if there are any more ominous predictions, but there is a small chance you will get some trivia or fortune cookie instead of the stats. I’m glad you like it. 🙂 I reconsidered animating the dice “rolling”, so I’ve added something there. I still didn’t want it to impact game play, so the animation only runs while you are pressing down on the Roll button. Note that it is theoretically possible that you could click &release the roll button fast enough that your browser may decide to not change the display. I’ll be happy to add a statistics display - what would y’all like to see on that? ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087/36 "2011-07-07T17:46:19Z")
On an unrelated note, my kids and I have been playing games similar to Yahtzee and I explained that the name was copyrighted. They figured similar games should be called Not-Yahtzee, or Nahtzee for short…You’re welcome to the name if you like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thirty-dots-thirteen-scoring-fields-five-dice-three-rolls-and-you/580087.md?page=1)