Years of interacting with many whites and blacks in Arizona tells me that one can make a point that on the whole many are not racist. But unfortunately many whites here continue to vote for certifiably and already judged by the courts racial profilers like the sheriff, I think racism is like alcoholism, in the sense that many relatives and friends that are not racists/alcoholics do however act as enablers of the addicts.
I don’t think the Republicans are necessarily racist, some are and some aren’t, what I see mostly is that they are people who favor the “haves” and enjoy seeing the “have nots” suffer, and whether the have nots are white or mexicans they some how make up reasons why their slave like low wages without healthcare is the correct and just thing to do.
No, they are people who favor haves and would like to see blacks and Hispanics become haves themselves. But every time they offer opinions on how they can accomplish this (work hard and do well in school, dress appropriately, drop ebonics and learn to speak properly, cultivate a friendly outgoing businesslike demeanor, etc., etc.) they get called racists by the very people whose political and societal policies have largely resulted in their living the lives they’re living today.
But you show me black families that live by the values of people like the Clarence Thomases, the Herman Cains and the Ben Carsons, and I’ll show you black families that live in nice houses, drive nice cars, wear nice clothes, whose kids do well in school, who are admired and welcomed by their white neighbors and business associates, and who don’t get hassled for “driving while black”.
Then show me black families who live according to the values and programs Democrats promote, and I’ll show you a population segment in which a significantly large percentage are forced to live on government benefits, where no father is around, whose kids are sullen and argumentative and do lousy in school, who listen to music that glorifies violence and promotes the view of women as bitches and ho’s, where criminality and drugs abound, and getting hassled by the police is a continual occurrence.
The sad fact of the matter is that the more people there are in the U.S. who can’t make it on their own, the more Democratic voters there are. So it should be no surprise that under Democrat and liberal policies over the last few decades all the negative and self-destructive elements that have arisen in minority neighborhoods which serve to hold them down and undercut their future are defended and encouraged by Democrats themselves. With friends like them minorities need no enemies.
We are talking about Trump here, the fact that you are wilfully ignoring his lying race baiting tweets against Blacks and words about other minorities tells us a lot about your ignorance, and one can just dismiss your sorry defence of Trump.
Most black Americans work hard, try hard in school, dress appropriately, speak appropriately/properly, and are friendly and peaceful and great Americans. When you try to tell these good people that the way they live their lives is wrong, they’re not likely to take kindly to your advice.
“Work hard!” to hard-working people is condescending, and if you are implying that most black people don’t work hard, racist.
How about Barack Obama, Henry Louis Gates, Beyonce and Jay-Z, Viola Davis, Morgan Freeman, and countless others? Why did you only include black
Republicans? And do you seriously believe that no black people who “live in nice houses, drive nice cars, wear nice clothes, whose kids do well in school, who are admired and welcomed by their white neighbors and business associates” aren’t ever hassled for “driving while black”?
That’s not what Democrats promote. That’s what the fantasy Democrats who live in the sphere of talk-radio, but not the real world, promote.
And yet Democratic policies have resulted in far, far more black people graduating from college, advancements and protections for Civil Rights and voting rights, and much more.
Indeed, and as pointed before I have seen many** well to do Hispanics** will do anything to prevent Trump from becoming president, or that they will just not show to support him.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/261425-hispanic-gop-leaders-shun-trump
Are you one of GloryDays’ friends? Do you live in Queens or Staten Island?
Some of this seems fair. But your words are skirting right up next to “respectability politics.” I suppose–I hope–that you’re not trying to ban ethnic hairstyles. But some “respectable black folk” insist on that exactly, along with everything you just said, and other folk are a bit suspicious of that kind of rhetoric now.
So they’re rich, and in Thomas’s case, corrupt? Whoo-eee, who knew that money bought privilege? :rolleyes:
Then again, ask Henry Louis Gates if being a wealthy VIP erases racism.
You and I see the causes and effects of poverty very differently. Stinginess with public services and endemic racism help keep people down; those aren’t particular to the Democratic Party.
Then for those people there’s no need to take my advice, is there? Why do you presuppose that my comments were aimed at every black but the ones I mentioned? All I was saying was that conservatives and Republicans want to see minority people doing well and becoming “haves”, and to the degree they manage to accomplish this despite admonitions from their peers for “acting white”, etc., the more we admire and appreciate them.
I was clearly talking about working hard in school. Context, andi, context. I clearly said “work hard and do well in school”.
Oh, I don’t know, I guess it just didn’t occur to me to include celebrities who hold their positions by virtue of winning society’s lottery rather than earning them the way most people would be able to if they lived by correct values and applied themselves.
Did I say no such black people ever experience this? No, I didn’t. I also didn’t say no white people ever experience it either, because on some occasions they do too. I did recently myself one night when I turned off on a street just before reaching a police car sitting sideways on the side of the road. He thought I was trying to avoid him so he came charging after me, riding my rear bumper with his brights on, undoubtedly checking furiously with dispatch to see if I had wants or warrants all the time. You can imagine his chagrin when I signaled a left and turned into my garage, lol.
So basically you have no point.
Don’t know why you’d say that. The evidence is everywhere.
Yes, I’ll grant that, and these advances are admirable. But they co-exist with millions of Republicans and conservatives who would like nothing better in light of these advancements than to see blacks doing well and becoming haves themselves, but they’re stymied at every turn by Democrats who defend and thereby encourage negative, harmful and self-destructive behaviors that continue to hold many in the black community back and contribute to an overall view of blacks that is both negative and inaccurate.
Some of the people I’ve loved most in my life have been black people. I work with a few black people at present and my next door neighbor and his white wife are a couple of the sweetest, nicest and most hard working people I know, and any of those them would give you the shirt off their back. And it pains me to see them grouped in the minds of many with the criminals and rap stars and other members of the black community who behave in ways that cause everyone else to be leery of and aloof toward them and to engage in discrimination against them.
And yet, here will be your average Democrat social warrior, front and center, yelling racist at anyone who condemns the negative elements in rap and hip hop music and laying the blame for black crime everywhere but on the people committing it, thereby justifying it in the minds of those who would commit it and only encouraging more of it.
Do you similarly admire black people who are admired by other black people for their achievements and are not chastised for “acting white”? Or do you only admire black people who are chastised for “acting white” by their peers?
Most black people work hard and do well in school.
Barack and Michelle Obama didn’t apply themselves, live by correct values, and earn their positions? Henry Louis Gates didn’t? Cornel West didn’t? How about Michael Eric Dyson and Tavis Smiley? Or Ta-Nehisi Coates? What values haven’t Beyonce, Morgan Freeman, or Oprah Winfrey demonstrated?
So you don’t believe “driving while black” is a thing, and black people doing nothing wrong aren’t disproportionately pulled over and searched by cops? Ferguson PD’s statistics for driver encounters disagrees with you – they pull over far more black drivers with no contraband or violations then white drivers, and find less contraband and violations with black drivers they pull over than white drivers.
No it’s not.
Democrats don’t do this. Do you really think it’s just coincidence that the stereotypes and negative views of black people are pretty much exactly the same as those views and stereotypes pushed by racists in the early 20th century? Did they just so happen to be right, or is it possible that any leftover negative views might be attributable by centuries of explicitly racist propaganda that depicted black people as lazy and savage?
Anyone who groups them with criminals for their race is a racist. Do you disagree with this? Racism pains me too, and I want to do something about it.
More fantasy average Democrat stuff here – this isn’t what real Democrats advocate for, for the most part.
I’ll also state that until I moved a little over a year ago my next door neighbors for many years were a white guy and his wife, a legal immigrant from Mexico, who through extremely hard work had almost single-handedly earned her family a nice two-story home, with a son going to medical school, and two other kids in middle and elementary school. The have multiple Apple computers and four cars in the drive. Her husband’s health has always been poor due to chemical exposure he was exposed to in Vietnam. He’s on disability and contributes nothing to the household income other than his disability benefits, so their financial situation is due almost to his hard working Mexican wife. She oversees 8 or 9 McDonald’s restaurants and works pretty much 70 hour weeks and is gone most of the time while her husband watches over the kids and gets them to school and so forth. Every year around Christmastime they take two weeks off and go to visit her family in Mexico. Her employer is a guy who also immigrated from Mexico legally decades ago and started as a dishwasher at McDonalds. He worked his ass off and now owns 16 - 18 McDonalds restaurants, of which she manages half.
And she frickin’ hates the idea of amnesty for illegal immigrants. Her belief is that she went through the process, spent the necessary money and waiting the necessary amount of time, and did things right. Like me, she does not believe these people should be rewarded for breaking the law. Is she a racist? Does she hate brown people? And if not, why am I a racist for holding the same views she does?
And no, Exapno, I do not live in New York and I have no idea who or what “GloryDays” is.
And now if you guys will excuse me, I’m off to watch a two hour special on Frank Sinatra. 
That is not what Trump is being condemned for. And it is also not the reason wealthy conservative Hispanics are against Trump. You are only continuing to enable Trump’s racism.
My wealthy conservative relatives that do oppose amnesty do know also that what it is in the cards now is not amnesty, a lot of fines and fees will be imposed on the ones that are here illegally for the chance to become legal. They also do dislike and break with the Republicans on the whole for making very jerkish moves against the Dreamers.
Are you really a starving Artist. I’ve never even met an artist who is republican. You and I must know completely different kinds of people because all there republicans I know, are in my family or that I knew as a child are from slightly above middle class families and some are really racist and if they are not racist they have a deep hatred for poor people, like the ones on the streets, if they walk by a homeless person they say nasty things about them.
I think the last few decades can be counted as Republican not Democrat. The Obama admin has been ruled the Senate and House which are all republican. Before that Bush was in for 8 years- so its been 15 years of Republican. Before Bush is was Clinton, then before that Bush and Reagan- so last Three decades have been ruled mostly by Republican ideas.
I’m not starving but I’ve dabbled in art. Done a few paintings, mostly copies of stuff I like but are too expensive to buy. I actually came to this board in the first place because of the description of Cafe Society as a salon and I imagined it would be full of artists discussing interesting aspects of art - like sort of an online version of Gertrude Stein’s home. Then I had the gall to enter some thread and voice something that was to me completely innocuous but must have been a dog-whistle to the board’s liberals that I had a conservative belief of some kind and I was immediately set upon as by a pack of wolves. Thus I became radicalized and have been here mostly as a political poster ever since.
Then you’ve never met Arnold Schwarzenegger, who’s been drawing and painting since he was a boy. Or Ted Nugent, who created some pretty kickass songs that still hold up 45 years later. Or Frank Sinatra, who after being a Democrat for most of his life eventually realized where liberalism was going and became a Republican for the last couple decades of his life. Still, there are artists in every field of art who encompass the entire range of politics…you know, just like there are some journalists who actually vote Republican. Hard to believe but true.
Well, you know what they say around here, “Anecdotes are not data”. Besides, lots of liberals say nasty things about Republicans, either in person or just generally. They lie about us and insist we hold views we don’t have, hate things or people we don’t hate, etc., etc., and use those claims for divisive political purposes. How are they any better?
Nonsense. Presidents and congress people have virtually no effect on the direction society takes in terms of day to day lifestyles. The news media, schools, entertainment magazines and movies, celebrities and television programs all play a much larger role in determining societal attitudes and mores, and every single entity I just mentioned is solidly and overwhelmingly in the hands of liberals. I don’t recall just who it was, but someone once said that those who control the way people get their information also control the people themselves. If you could take someone from 50 years ago and put them in a time machine to today, they’d never believe it was the same country. And for better or worse, the changes that’ve occurred in the meantime have been liberal driven through the the entities I just mentioned. In my opinion it’s a testament to the strength of common sense and rationality (and the fact that people tend to become more conservative and practical as they grow older) that in the face of virtually nonstop liberal indoctrination over the last several decades, elections are still determined by only a few percentage points one way or the other.
So basically, and I mean no offense by this, you are a Troll who comes on here to rock the boat. So whatever someone writes you will play devils advocate.
I think Trump is fantastic, by the way. 
No, I’m not a troll. I come here to contest allegations I believe to be wrong and to offer viewpoints on things that I think need to be said. And since you’ve been here a year you should know by now this is not the forum where accusations of trollery are allowed. I’m not going to report it so if you wind up getting a note you can know it didn’t come from me, but I don’t like to be accused of trollery and would appreciate it if you would respond in a more respectful way when I take the time to truthfully answer questions you put to me in an apparently curious and sincere manner.
Sorry starving artist, didn’t mean to offend you so much and was mostly just joking- I would go back and take out the word, but they don’t let you. And thank you for replying to all my questions, I enjoyed reading the replies. I don’t take any online forums that seriously, or politics that seriously. Sometimes I tend to take the flip side of most arguments and theories to challenge the other side because if everyone agrees it becomes boring, so I sometimes am Troll like myself. I’m an American living in New Zealand by the way, and consider myself independent leaning toward democrat and socialist because being in New Zealand with free healthcare and 4-6 weeks vacation has been great for me, and I wish others had the same. I was a graphic designer, designed mostly magazines and then taught graphic design for a number of years. Most of my friends are artists, printmakers, photographers and painters, all my friends are Democrats and voters, thats why I asked are you really an artist. I consider myself a graphic designer/illustrator.
I’m reporting Sputnikkk because as a liberal/progressive/socialist/Kenyan muslim I believe in fair play, and not just for my side.
Skimming, I noticed this:
How about Barack Obama, Henry Louis Gates, Beyonce and Jay-Z, Viola Davis, Morgan Freeman, and countless others? Why did you only include black Republicans?
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Oh, I don’t know, I guess it just didn’t occur to me to include celebrities who hold their positions by virtue of winning society’s lottery rather than earning them the way most people would be able to if they lived by correct values and applied themselves.
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I squirted coffee all over the screen when I read this. 
(I don’t how Dopers have the patience to scrutinize such opinions.)
I served in the Navy, on a submarine. Compared to the bad times on a sub, everything is really, really easy. Nothing in my life has been close to difficult or frustrating, when I stop to think about it, since I left the Navy (not that I didn’t enjoy my time – I’m glad I was in the Navy, and now I’m glad to be out).