# This Board's anti-criticism policy is harmful and misguided **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047 "2009-02-16T04:20:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/61 "2009-02-19T13:52:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You may like it or you may not; people have different ideas of what they want, and we have enough people here that there’s always going to be disagreement and we also have a thoughtful membership. My take on this: You (or **Ed** , really) can and are going to do whatever the fuck you please, and you’ll be okay with that decision because you can never please everybody anyway. The important thing is that the mods (read: **Ed** ) has the kind of board you (or **Ed** ) wants to have, and to hell with anyone who feels differently. If a mod dares protest, don’t let the door bang your ass on your way out, and if a poster dares protest too vigorously, he quickly becomes an ex-poster. It’s just one big happy SDMB family, innit? That’s the realpolitik of it, I understand. It’s just completely unnecessary, especially when the dreadful alternative is to simply let this fucking place run, as it has run, pretty smoothly for the seven years I’ve been here and for years before that. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/62 "2009-02-19T13:55:16Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I’m sure if you dig deep enough you can find a better example. But it is still the perception of many posters. It may not be the total truth but there is a basis in fact. So are we talking about a perception or a fact? You said “there is not a good track record of admitting mistakes,” which is about the facts, not the perception. I know what the perception is. I don’t want to rehash years of board history, most of which were before my time as a moderator, but I think the perception and the reality are different. The bottom line is that you can’t please everybody, but I don’t think the track record is bad. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/63 "2009-02-19T14:27:42Z")
Anybody ever tell you you’ve got a shit ton of complaints for somebody who thinks the place is running “pretty fucking smoothly,” **pseudotriton ruber ruber**? > [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > My take on this: You (or **Ed** , really) can and are going to do whatever the fuck you please Yes yes, the cynical realpolitik view. Golf clap for the new insight, small deduction for failing to use the sandbox analogy. No, it’s not possible to please everybody (something I should keep in mind more often), it’s also not true that everybody who is displeased or confused is written off as a crank and disregarded. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/64 "2009-02-19T14:29:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So are we talking about a perception or a fact? You said “there is not a good track record of admitting mistakes,” which is about the facts, not the perception. I know what the perception is. I don’t want to rehash years of board history, most of which were before my time as a moderator, but I think the perception and the reality are different. The bottom line is that you can’t please everybody, but I don’t think the track record is bad. Difference of opinion. I was conceding the point that it wasn’t 100% bad on the part of the administration. That does not mean that the perception isn’t based firmly in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/65 "2009-02-19T14:38:10Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That does not mean that the perception isn’t based firmly in reality. Okay. On the flip side, the fact that you feel a decision was made incorrectly doesn’t mean we screwed up and have to apologize. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/66 "2009-02-19T14:39:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > it’s also not true that everybody who is displeased or confused is written off as a crank and disregarded. Witness Admin [CK Dexter Haven’s views](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10839154&postcount=24) on current worries about the board’s direction: > [@CK Dexter Haven](#): > > There seem to me to be two positions that people can take at the moment, regarding possible changes to the Pit rules: > > (1) Go ape-shit, rant, rave, and scream, spray spittle, scream and yell (engage in recreational outrage) because obviously ANY change is bad. Any change is always bad. No change is ever good. Nothing good ever comes of any change. Etc etc. Of course, when the actual changes (if any) are decided and revealed, your outcries may feel a bit stupid and misplaced, but that’s never stopped recreational outrage. > OR > > (2) Wait and see what’s being proposed and then put together reasonable and rational arguments for or against. So only the nutters aren’t waiting and seeing. Further: > [@CK Dexter Haven](#): > > Interesting to me: When someone starts a thread about the end of the world because there are discussions going on about changes in board policy, we can count on certain posters to start ranting and raving and screaming in fear and worry. When someone starts a thread about the end of the world because the Mayan Calendar runs out of dates in 2012, these same posters laugh in derision. “O wad some Power the giftie gie us…” So you can see where some might have gotten that “written off as a crank” impression. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/67 "2009-02-19T14:56:16Z")
Dex also said a complaint doesn’t become more valid just because a poster repeats it over and over- same goes for any kind of argument. I note that he was also talking to **pseudotriton ruber ruber**. Of course you’ve never been much of a “witness.” Good at copying and pasting, for sure, but that’s a little like saying Alex the Parrot was a “witness” to conversations with his handlers. He did what parrots do, which is repeat bits of a conversation. Parrots aren’t good with context either, but they have a better excuse. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/68 "2009-02-19T15:02:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Dex also said a complaint doesn’t become more valid just because a poster repeats it over and over- same goes for any kind of argument. I note that he was also talking to **pseudotriton ruber ruber**. > Of course you’ve never been much of a “witness.” Good at copying and pasting, for sure, but that’s a little like saying Alex the Parrot was a “witness” to conversations with his handlers. He did what parrots do, which is repeat bits of a conversation. Parrots aren’t good with context either, but they have a better excuse. Are you saying I misrepresented his comments? That it would somehow be different if he was addressing someone else? Here’s his next comment when called on the earlier one, addressing **XJETGIRLX** : > [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > Believe me, if I saw people saying, “I am wary of change,” I wouldn’t have bothered to post. What I see are some people getting all worked up about imagined nightmares, rather than just waiting to see what happens. So tell me more about my poor witnessing abilities. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/69 "2009-02-19T15:05:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Okay. On the flip side, the fact that you feel a decision was made incorrectly doesn’t mean we screwed up and have to apologize. But that would mean that _I_ am wrong. I just don’t see how that is possible… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/70 "2009-02-19T15:13:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Dex also said a complaint doesn’t become more valid just because a poster repeats it over and over- same goes for any kind of argument. I note that he was also talking to **pseudotriton ruber ruber**. > Of course you’ve never been much of a “witness.” Good at copying and pasting, for sure, but that’s a little like saying Alex the Parrot was a “witness” to conversations with his handlers. He did what parrots do, which is repeat bits of a conversation. Parrots aren’t good with context either, but they have a better excuse. Here is a good example of a poor exchange. Are you posting as \*\*Marley23 \*\*the user or are you posting as a mod trying to explain the SDMB positions? I ask as **CarnalK** , who clearly does not have a great reputation, was asking a polite question and got insults back. While you are of course within your right to do this and of course it is the pit. It does not help when polite questions are answered with snark. (how Ironic in this case I realize.) I also ask as if he returns your snark and insults, he might get suspended. He cannot even know if it is safe to at this point. Especially as he is a poster that many moderators have made it clear is less than liked. It looks almost like baiting. As to the quoted post from **Dex** , he did seem to exclude the category in between his effectively black and white positions. I don’t think you or anyone else would accuse me of going ape-shit. However, I am also not really in the category of “Wait and see”. We are out there. We don’t flame the moderators. At most we try to explain why we felt a decision was wrong. But we also have concerns with what we are seeing. I don’t think it is the end of the world. But the issue is not strictly restricted to those that appear to recreationally complain. I also don’t think \*\*Loach \*\*has ever been considered in that group. Though I cannot be sure of the reps of various posters among the moderators. Your friend, Jim (signature added as I mean it and mean this as a minor bit of constructive criticism) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/71 "2009-02-19T15:15:09Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > But that would mean that _I_ am wrong. I just don’t see how that is possible… Well it’s not possible that _I’m_ wrong - I got a fancy pants title under my name and everthing. It’s an honest difference of opinion, like you said: nobody apologizes just because someone else says they’re wrong, but when we’re wrong or just plain unclear, which is the issue lately, I think we’re pretty good about being forthright about that. > [@CarnalK](#): > > So tell me more about my poor witnessing abilities. They suck. Short sentences help? Get new hobby. Your act’s old. Witness this: > [@Giraffe](#): > > if we feel your primary reason for being here is to complain about the board and/or the moderators, you may be invited to go find another board that is more to your liking Know anyone like that? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/72 "2009-02-19T15:28:24Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Are you posting as \*\*Marley23 \*\*the user or are you posting as a mod trying to explain the SDMB positions? My opinions about individual posters are my own, same as my opinions on music and sports. What I’m doing here is posting about what’s going on with the state of board, answering some questions and giving my opinion about some issues without doing the ‘mod hat on’ thing and actively moderating. > [@](#): > > I ask as **CarnalK** , who clearly does not have a great reputation, was asking a polite question and got insults back. I don’t have a problem with your comments, but this is really naive. I answered **Loach** ’s questions politely and I’ll keep doing so, same with you. I’m required to be fair with people but I’m not required to ignore it when people play games. > [@](#): > > He cannot even know if it is safe to at this point. Yes, I could tell he seemed unusually timid. Almost weeping on the inside. 😛 > [@](#): > > It looks almost like baiting. I’m responding to statements and questions from **CarnalK**. I’m not baiting him. > [@](#): > > We are out there. We don’t flame the moderators. At most we try to explain why we felt a decision was wrong. But we also have concerns with what we are seeing. I understand that. I’m saying pretty much the same thing Dex was saying, which is that, wary or otherwise, it’s more productive to wait and see, and then have a full understanding. I didn’t say everybody’s complaining recreationally. I don’t believe that **Loach** (or you) were doing so. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/73 "2009-02-19T15:28:39Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > I ask as CarnalK, who clearly does not have a great reputation, was asking a polite question and got insults back. While you are of course within your right to do this and of course it is the pit. It does not help when polite questions are answered with snark. (how Ironic in this case I realize.) I also ask as if he returns your snark and insults, he might get suspended. He cannot even know if it is safe to at this point. Especially as he is a poster that many moderators have made it clear is less than liked. It looks almost like baiting. Almost, huh? lol. It’s hard to call it ironic, though, because I don’t remember Marley ever addressing me without including some snarky “you’re not wanted here” comment. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/74 "2009-02-19T15:38:57Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Almost, huh? lol. It’s hard to call it ironic, though, because I don’t remember Marley ever addressing me without including some snarky “you’re not wanted here” comment. And yet, you’re still here. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/75 "2009-02-19T15:40:49Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > And yet, you’re still here. Stop victimizing him, **Lynn**! It’s so unfair! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/76 "2009-02-19T15:42:05Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > And yet, you’re still here. Actually I have always use \*\*CarnalK \*\*as a good example that the Mods do not have too heavy of a hand in moderation. This is why the “butthurt” and “FOAD” incidents look so out of character to me. It is also making me and probably others fearful that moderation is taking a turn for the harsher and less tolerant. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/77 "2009-02-19T15:54:47Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > My opinions about individual posters are my own, same as my opinions on music and sports. What I’m doing here is posting about what’s going on with the state of board, answering some questions and giving my opinion about some issues without doing the ‘mod hat on’ thing and actively moderating. > > I don’t have a problem with your comments, but this is really naive. I answered **Loach** ’s questions politely and I’ll keep doing so, same with you. I’m required to be fair with people but I’m not required to ignore it when people play games. > > Yes, I could tell he seemed unusually timid. Almost weeping on the inside. 😛 > > I’m responding to statements and questions from **CarnalK**. I’m not baiting him. > > I understand that. I’m saying pretty much the same thing Dex was saying, which is that, wary or otherwise, it’s more productive to wait and see, and then have a full understanding. I didn’t say everybody’s complaining recreationally. I don’t believe that **Loach** (or you) were doing so. I missed this, sorry. I am glad you are just posting as yourself and there is little reason for you not to be snarky to **CarnalK** if you dislike him that much. However it still leaves open the question of whether or not it is still safe for **CarnalK** to reply in kind or is he going to get a warning or worse for giving a mod a hard time. \*\*Lynn \*\*insulted **Sapo** , \*\*Sapo \*\*responded with a generic Internet insult and he got suspended. \*\*Colibri \*\*threatened to “use” something \*\*Sapo \*\*posted against him in future threads and insulted **Sapo**. \*\*Sapo \*\*uses a mild insult back and got officially warned. \*\*Colibri \*\*was not even in that thread as a Mod but as another poster in the pit. At least \*\*Lynn \*\*was in the other thread as an Admin. Thus why I asked what I asked. You are a mod that is talking about the board. You are being snarky to **CarnalK** and as far as we know now, if he answers in kind, he might well get another warning. In his case it can be the final warning. When I said ‘almost baiting’, I did mean the ‘almost’ part. I think many would read your posts as baiting and many would not. It is open to interpretation but if **CarnalK** did respond or raise to the appearance of the bait and he got warned, it would reflect badly on you for some posters. Personally I think you were just replying to **CarnalK** the way I might reply to one or two posters I thoroughly disrespect. However as you are a mod it puts your words in a different light as of the last few weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/78 "2009-02-19T16:03:44Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Actually I have always use \*\*CarnalK \*\*as a good example that the Mods do not have too heavy of a hand in moderation. I read **Marley23** ’s response as a not-particularly-thinly veiled threat. And in a thread titled as this one is, that is ironic. I am getting the impression that TPTB are not averse to banning more people than has been historically the case, especially in the Pit.I suppose we shall see if I am wrong or not. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/79 "2009-02-19T16:10:19Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > However it still leaves open the question of whether or not it is still safe for **CarnalK** to reply in kind or is he going to get a warning or worse for giving a mod a hard time. **CarnalK** ’s been doing the same thing on the board for a long time. If he’s “unsure” of what he’s allowed to do, whether anything has changed or not, he can say so for himself and I am sure he won’t hesitate to let us know. **CarnalK** show over, let’s get back to the topic here: > [@Shodan](#): > > I am getting the impression that TPTB are not averse to banning more people than has been historically the case, especially in the Pit. This is exactly what I was posting about the other day when I said: > [@](#): > > it’s common for someone to interpret new rules or a new ruling as sign of an imminent crackdown that’s going to cause a lot of bannings and ruin the site… and yet that never actually happens. But to hear some people tell it, it’s always just around the corner. ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047/80 "2009-02-19T16:24:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Originally Posted by Giraffe > if we feel your primary reason for being here is to complain about the board and/or the moderators, you may be invited to go find another board that is more to your liking > > Know anyone like that? > [@Marley23](#): > > My opinions about individual posters are my own, same as my opinions on music and sports. What I’m doing here is posting about what’s going on with the state of board, answering some questions and giving my opinion about some issues without doing the ‘mod hat on’ thing and actively moderating. So, in one post you make you make a comment that looks like a threat to initiate Mod actions. In the next you claim to be just an ordinary poster. This is exactly the kind of dual role behavior that people are noting. Do you not see that this is exactly the stuff that people are takling about where confusion exists regarding your role? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-boards-anti-criticism-policy-is-harmful-and-misguided/486047.md?page=5)