# This Cardinal Fan's last word **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 29, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788 "2004-10-29T02:55:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bean\_Counter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/db5fbb/32.png) [@Bean\_Counter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bean_Counter)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/1 "2004-10-29T02:55:55Z")
Ok, the major league baseball season is over. The Sox rightly won the World Series as they came to win and played like it. I am so disgusted, so embarrassed at how my home city was represented on the field for the fall classic that a demonstration of sheer vitriol in this Pit would serve no purpose. It will not ease my torment. I am numb. I guess there’s always the Blues hockey season to look forward to. :smack: All that remains as I ruminate on the Cardinals is this haiku: > [@](#): > > The season went great. > Won the pennant. World Series? > Forgot to show up. As they are fond of saying in Chicago, “There’s always next year.” ---
**Author:** ![Grasshopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f19dbf/32.png) [@Grasshopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grasshopper)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/2 "2004-10-29T03:02:36Z")
I sympathize. Cleveland’s my team, and we made it to the World Series in '95 and '97. First we lost to Atlanta in six games and then to Florida in seven games, and even though it was close, I still remember how damn disappointing it was. It was crushing. It was awful watching those last outs and feeling all the hope and excitement leak out. The one consolation I found was in thinking that at least the Indians gave them a run for their money. I wanted Boston to win the World Series, but I didn’t want it to be a sweep because I wanted St. Louis to have some nights where everyone drove through the streets blaring their horns and shouting and cheering. I was oddly disappointed when Boston won the game yesterday, thinking hmm, I don’t know what to feel. Condolences, Bean Counter. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Sayid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jack\_Sayid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Sayid)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/3 "2004-10-29T03:07:59Z")
Don’t feel bad. Boston’s pitching was dominant. No team would have done better. Schilling-Martinez-Lowe…and lights out, baby! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/4 "2004-10-29T03:10:53Z")
Amen, **BC**. I was really impressed with the Cards’ fielding (Pujols was doing some really cool things), but the batting left _much_ to be desired, and the pitching… well, let’s just say I bet 90% of the pitchers in the minors could have done better. In fact, the pitching is what _really_ did me in. In game 4, Marquis (sp?) was obviously getting very fatigued (let’s walk the bases loaded), yet LaRussa decided to keep him in for another 2 innings. It was nice to see _one_ of the teams were giving it their all.\* LilShieste \*- exceptions being a few select Cardinal players: Walker, Pujols, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/5 "2004-10-29T03:50:46Z")
[Bart Giamatti] Baseball was designed to break your heart. [/Bart Giamatti] ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/6 "2004-10-29T04:25:13Z")
What happened to the Tony LaRussa fundamentals? throughout the series, the Cardinals played like the '62 Mets. All was missing was Tony doing Casey Stengal impressions. Did look at times he was going to break into one. ---
**Author:** ![Pixiesnix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Pixiesnix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixiesnix)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/7 "2004-10-29T05:17:07Z")
At least Cards fans have one thing to be proud of…dignity and grace in both victory and defeat. No thrown bottles, no rioting, just disappointed faces. We can hold on to that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Raven\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Raven\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Raven_1)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/8 "2004-10-29T05:26:21Z")
Howyadoin, After seeing the dramatics of the NLCS, I was truly concerned that Boston’s pitching advantage would be negated by the late-inning heroics of the Cardinal sluggers. Remember that Houston’s pitching staff, aside from their middle relief, was pretty decent. To see the Cards seemingly collapse after Game 2 was a shock. I was surprised at how negative LaRussa became, both in press conferences and in the dugout. The shot of him covering his face with his hat after Suppan’s blunder in Game 3 was bush-league. Get away from the camera if you’re gonna do that crap. Unfortunately, he doesn’t seem to want to get away from the camera. He reminds me too much of a younger Al Davis, maybe it’s the shades? For the team to go home and mail it in like that in front of their wildly supportive fans , you have to look at the leadership of the team. LaRussa should have grabbed his team by the jockstraps and woke their ass up. I heard that he didn’t want to make a lineup change in Game 4 because it would cause “panic”. Are you kidding me? Maybe a little “panic” is better than letting Prince Albert become Prince Valium, eh? Ultimately, I’m an overjoyed battered wreck of a Sox fan, so I can’t say I totally minded a less agita-inducing Series than the ALCS, but I feel badly for the Cardinals fans, who deserved better. Let’s do it again next year, eh? -Rav ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/9 "2004-10-29T12:08:16Z")
Having grown up a Pirate and Steeler fan in St. Louis in the 70’s and 80’s, I have to say that I very much enjoyed seeing the Cardinals national depantsing by the Red Sox. Outmatched and outclassed. As to this idea that the Cardinals’ fans are somehow epitomes of class and decorum, I say “Bullshit!” I received no end of shit in St. Louis for being a Pirates fan, especially when the Pirates didn’t suck. Being a Steeler fan generally didn’t cause too much problem because nobody there cared about the “football” Cardinals. My family has stories of having beer dumped on them, being harrassed and chased from Busch stadium. I would allow that maybe things are different now, but last year when I went to a Pirates-Cardinals game at PNC Park in Pittsburgh, a delegation of St. Louisans was sitting about 15 rows back. About the fourth inning, they start making noise, and one in particular starts yelling “Kendall Sucks!” (Jason Kendall being the Pirates catcher.) Did we dump beer on him? No, people allowed him to go on. With my history in St. Louis, I couldn’t take it for long, and to the chagrin of my brothers, I responded with such wit as “When’s the bus heading back to Valley Park?” Of course, that only resulted in him becoming even more of an asshole, and telling us all about the standings and history of the Cardinals relative to the Pirates. Decent, respectful fans? Fuck that shit. Cardinals fans are rude, intolerant pieces of shit. (Okay, not all of them, but enough that it matters.) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/10 "2004-10-29T13:36:25Z")
> [@Bean Counter](#): > > I am numb. I guess there’s always the Blues hockey season to look forward to. :smack: Don’t worry, at least the Rams looked good last week. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/11 "2004-10-29T13:51:31Z")
> [@LilShieste](#): > > I was really impressed with the Cards’ fielding (Pujols was doing some really cool things), but the batting left _much_ to be desired, and the pitching… well, let’s just say I bet 90% of the pitchers in the minors could have done better. > > \ > > It was nice to see _one_ of the teams were giving it their all.\* > LilShieste > > \*- exceptions being a few select Cardinal players: Walker, Pujols, etc. Pujols was scary-good in the field, and Larry Walker was about the only guy who looked like he knew what to do with the stick, but that was about it. I was shocked. On the other hand, I can kind of see what happened. The Cardinals strength at home was smallball: base hits and smart baserunning. That’s tough to do when you can’t get baserunners. What did they get against Lowe, two hits and a walk? The sox, by way of contrast, were spanking it all over the place. Even when you can’t run, if you put 15 guys on in a game at least a couple are going to come in. Pitching did the Cards in from both directions. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/12 "2004-10-29T14:10:25Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > My family has stories of having beer dumped on them, being harrassed and chased from Busch stadium. Still happens at the Metrodome during and after Viking games. Though if you’re lucky this is all that happens and you avoid getting into a physical fight. ---
**Author:** ![esquimalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@esquimalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esquimalt)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/13 "2004-10-29T15:12:46Z")
> [@Bean Counter](#): > > Ok, the major league baseball season is over. The Sox rightly won the World Series as they came to win and played like it. > > I am so disgusted, so embarrassed at how my home city was represented on the field for the fall classic that a demonstration of sheer vitriol in this Pit would serve no purpose. It will not ease my torment. > > I am numb. I guess there’s always the Blues hockey season to look forward to. :smack: > > All that remains as I ruminate on the Cardinals is this haiku: > > As they are fond of saying in Chicago, “There’s always next year.” As a life long Red Sox fan, I think St.Louis has nothing to be embarrassed about. It simply was the Red Sox year. 105 wins & the National League pennant is a pretty damn good accomplishment. The difference in this years Red Sox & last was the addition of Schilling & Foulke. If St. Louis keeps the same team on the field & adds 2 more good pitchers & a healthy Carpenter. they will do well again next year ---
**Author:** ![esquimalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@esquimalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esquimalt)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/14 "2004-10-29T15:17:11Z")
> [@esquimalt](#): > > As a life long Red Sox fan, I think St.Louis has nothing to be embarrassed about. It simply was the Red Sox year. 105 wins & the National League pennant is a pretty damn good accomplishment. The difference in this years Red Sox & last was the addition of Schilling & Foulke. If St. Louis keeps the same team on the field & adds 2 more good pitchers & a healthy Carpenter. they will do well again next year Oh by the way, I live in Worcester which is home to the Blues AHL farm team. I have become a Blues fan as well as a Bruins fan because it is fun to watch the players play here then move up to the big leagues. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/15 "2004-10-29T16:01:11Z")
And just before too many Cards fans get upset on down about the team’s performance in the World Series, keep in mind that this was a team chosen by practically every _ahem_ “expert” to finish third in their division behind the Astros and the Cubs. We weren’t even expected to make the playoffs, much less have the best record in baseball and go to the WS. And we made it through two rounds of post-season play without Chris Carpenter, arguably our best starter of the regular season. I look back on the '85 and '87 Cards with fond memories, although they lost the Series those years, too. So even though the post-season had a disappointing ending (for Cards fans at least), I don’t think we should be too hard on a team that didn’t listen to all the talk about them finishing third. That said, a couple questions that bugged me about LaRussa’s decisions in the Series… 1. Why not use Mabry as the DH in Boston? He’s a left-handed power threat who hit for average during the regular season and has played in the AL before. Why is he warming the bench? 2. Why no bunts against a shaky Boston defense and a Curt Schilling with a bad ankle in game two? The third baseman alone made 4 errors that game! Renteria, Womack, Sanders – they all have speed to bunt for base hits, why not let them try? With Schilling on the mound _get the hell on base_! 3. Marquis hadn’t pitched well in the playoffs and had a poor finish to the regular season. In his first full season as a starter, it looked like he was running out of gas at the end. Danny Haren, on the other hand, held Boston in check earlier in the Series and was well rested, give the kid a shot. 4. Not a question about strategy, but a what if? sort of thing that the losing side always wonders about… Would our pitching have been better if Carpenter hadn’t had the nerve problem in his bicep and was available in the post-season? Oh well, in the end, it looked like we were simply outmatched on the field (well, except on defense). We were out-hit and out-pitched. And it’s about damn time the Red Sox won the big one, I just wished we’d put on a better show so the rest of the country could’ve seen the team that won 105 games in the regular season. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/16 "2004-10-29T16:09:18Z")
And just before too many Cards fans get upset on down about the team’s performance in the World Series, keep in mind that this was a team chosen by practically every _ahem_ “expert” to finish third in their division behind the Astros and the Cubs. We weren’t even expected to make the playoffs, much less have the best record in baseball and go to the WS. And we made it through two rounds of post-season play without Chris Carpenter, arguably our best starter of the regular season. I look back on the '85 and '87 Cards with fond memories, although they lost the Series those years, too. So even though the post-season had a disappointing ending (for Cards fans at least), I don’t think we should be too hard on a team that didn’t listen to all the talk about them finishing third. That said, a couple questions that bugged me about LaRussa’s decisions in the Series… 1. Why not use Mabry as the DH in Boston? He’s a left-handed power threat who hit for average during the regular season and has played in the AL before. Why is he warming the bench? 2. Why no bunts against a shaky Boston defense and a Curt Schilling with a bad ankle in game two? The third baseman alone made 4 errors that game! Renteria, Womack, Sanders – they all have speed to bunt for base hits, why not let them try? With Schilling on the mound _get the hell on base_! 3. Marquis hadn’t pitched well in the playoffs and had a poor finish to the regular season. In his first full season as a starter, it looked like he was running out of gas at the end. Danny Haren, on the other hand, held Boston in check earlier in the Series and was well rested, give the kid a shot. 4. Not a question about strategy, but a what if? sort of thing that the losing side always wonders about… Would our pitching have been better if Carpenter hadn’t had the nerve problem in his bicep and was available in the post-season? Oh well, in the end, it looked like we were simply outmatched on the field (well, except on defense). We were out-hit and out-pitched. And it’s about damn time the Red Sox won the big one, I just wished we’d put on a better show so the rest of the country could’ve seen the team that won 105 games in the regular season. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/17 "2004-10-29T19:01:18Z")
I was afraid this was going to happen. During the 2004 season the Cardinals had 5 solid starting pitchers-- solid but none really spectacular. Oh Matt Morris could be dominant on occasion. But certainly no Schilling, Martinez or even aging Roger Clemens. The Cardinals had a great pitching staff for a 162 game season, but didn’t have a stopper for a short series. IIRC, The Red Sox scored in the first inning of every game. Kinda hard to get out of that hole every game. RE: Schilling, bunting & what might have been: If only Reggie Sanders not missed the bag rounding second in Game 2. Runners on 2nd & 3rd, one out, would have been a great time for Matheny to lay down a squeeze bunt on Schilling & Mueller-- instead of lining into a double play. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/18 "2004-10-29T21:11:23Z")
Cardinal Fan! Fetch…THE COMFY CHAIR! Then sit back and watch football. Maybe the Cardinals, er, I mean Rams will be worth watching! ---
**Author:** ![robgruver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@robgruver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robgruver)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/19 "2004-10-29T21:25:40Z")
As an Astros fan I would like to add… Fuck shit cock! AHHHHHH!!! Ahem… Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788/20 "2004-10-29T21:47:25Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > My family has stories of having beer dumped on them, being harrassed and chased from Busch stadium. Your family was CHASED from Busch stadium? Must’ve been a pretty boring game for an angry mob to suddenly form and CHASE you out of the stadium. > [@](#): > > I would allow that maybe things are different now, but last year when I went to a Pirates-Cardinals game at PNC Park in Pittsburgh, a delegation of St. Louisans was sitting about 15 rows back. About the fourth inning, they start making noise, and one in particular starts yelling “Kendall Sucks!” (Jason Kendall being the Pirates catcher.) Did we dump beer on him? No, people allowed him to go on. With my history in St. Louis, I couldn’t take it for long, and to the chagrin of my brothers, I responded with such wit as “When’s the bus heading back to Valley Park?” Of course, that only resulted in him becoming even more of an asshole, and telling us all about the standings and history of the Cardinals relative to the Pirates. > > Decent, respectful fans? Fuck that shit. Cardinals fans are rude, intolerant pieces of shit. (Okay, not all of them, but enough that it matters.) One time a “delegation” of Pirates fans started yelling “Pujols sucks!” The unmitigated gall!!! Another time a guy in a Penguins jersey threw a beer on me at a Blues game. I can therefore state that all Penguins fans are crude, impudent fuckheads. (Okay, not all of them, but enough that it matters.) :rolleyes: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-cardinal-fans-last-word/271788.md?page=2)