# This fucking board is pushing me towards voting Republican **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 5, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554 "2011-03-05T02:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/121 "2011-03-05T18:02:14Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > But you know what actually happens in American under the typical political parties that we have when you look at the actual evidence? People in _all_ income groups do better economically under Democrats than Republicans. In fact, every economic indicator has performed better under Democrats than Republicans for all data available. It’s all there. So if you are voting for Republicans based on economic reasons, you’re voting for a fantasy of the type often sold by **Sam Stone** and his ilk. Inform your conscience with actual empirical evidence and then vote it. It’s liberating. I’m in the UK so not voting republican. That’s also why I’m only talking in general terms. If I was in America, I’d probably be towards the right of the Democratic voters. In most countries, everyone does best under a moderate centre-right government, and by world standards that’s where the Democrats are. I’m not disagreeing with you, but with insane communists like **Der Trihs**. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/122 "2011-03-05T18:05:13Z")
> [@furt](#): > > [Wisconsin union fight: Which side does US public support? - CSMonitor.com](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2011/0302/Wisconsin-union-fight-Which-side-does-US-public-support) > > First link on google. > [@](#): > > However, when asked about what is going on in Wisconsin specifically, US voters generally side with the public employee unions, according to several recent surveys. > > For instance, a Pew Research poll released Monday found that 42 percent of respondents favored the unions in the Wisconsin showdown, and 31 percent favored Governor Walker. Pew also found that the Wisconsin labor dispute is the third-most closely watched news story at the moment, behind events in Libya and oil prices. > > A Gallup poll released Feb. 22 found an even wider split on Wisconsin events, with 61 percent saying they oppose efforts by the legislature there to take away collective bargaining rights in the name of deficit reduction. > > As to collective bargaining for public employee unions in general, results are more mixed. As noted, the new Quinnipiac survey found voters split on this question. The wording of the question in the Quinnipiac survey did not include any reference to the highly charged situation in Wisconsin, which may explain why its results were less pro-union than findings of other surveys. I have observed that once the specific situation in Wisconsin is added to the question, the split in support seen in some polls is gone. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/123 "2011-03-05T18:09:13Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > “'Course it’s a bit hard to see much at all, what with all this coal dust in my eyes, nor hear with my ears stuffed with weevils such as they are, but that’s neither here nor there…” No, I suspect even blind and deaf I’d notice murderous sadism. The small amount of disdain that’s probably the reality, when not seen through a distorting lens of poorly understood Marxism, I frankly couldn’t give a shit about, as it has no actual effect on anything. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/124 "2011-03-05T18:23:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > :rolleyes: The rich don’t regard themselves as part of the same society as the rest of us anyway, and never have. They feel no obligation, empathy or moral restraint towards the rest of humanity; we are expendable, exploitable resources at best in their eyes. The “separation” is already there. The rich are and always have been the enemy of the rest of us, whether or not the rest of us are willing to admit it. Oh, really? Then how do you explain all the donations given by the wealthy? And I don’t mean just people like the late John D. Rockerfeller and Bill Gates. As usual, Charles Manson or some other nut sent some contorted notion into your fetid brain and you immediately grab the ladder and file it under “fact”. You really are becoming the actual definition of the word “bafoon”. Either that or you need a Costco-sized deal on appointments with a shrink. Not that it’s necessarily one or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/125 "2011-03-05T18:27:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > :rolleyes: The rich don’t regard themselves as part of the same society as the rest of us anyway, and never have. They feel no obligation, empathy or moral restraint towards the rest of humanity; we are expendable, exploitable resources at best in their eyes. The “separation” is already there. The rich are and always have been the enemy of the rest of us, whether or not the rest of us are willing to admit it. You put my rebellious, angsty nephew to shame. I think you are thinking of [the Stonecutters](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSpOjj4YD8c&feature=related). ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/126 "2011-03-05T18:35:49Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I have observed that once the specific situation in Wisconsin is added to the question, the split in support seen in some polls is gone. That’s not surprising to me; just as people will always knock “congress” but then approve of most all specific congressman or say “cut spending” but then oppose cuts on any particular programs, we’re inclined to say public unions are bad ideas … except for teachers, and cops, and firemen, and trashmen, and mailmen and not in Wisconsin or in my state, etc. We’re stupid like that. In any event, he asked for “one single unbiased poll from Wisconsin or elsewhere, where public opinion isn’t on the side of the Democrats.” I gave it to him. I expect he’ll now explain why it doesn’t count, but hey, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/127 "2011-03-05T18:39:28Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > You liberals really take the cake. It’s obvious that the previous GOP administrations set the stage. Just like it was obvious that the passage of the tax cut extension led to an immediate jump in employment. > > Why can’t you guys understand the basic facts? Please enclose a smiley ( 😃 ) or winkie ( :rolleyes: ) when posting a parody of right-wing “thought.” Even on this relatively intelligent board we have genuine right-wing posts almost indistinguishable from self-parody. What gave yours away was the absence both of the misplaced bitterness of the under-informed and the pompous snark of “erudite” right-wingers. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/128 "2011-03-05T18:50:32Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Please enclose a smiley ( 😃 ) or winkie ( :rolleyes: ) when posting a parody of right-wing “thought.” Even on this relatively intelligent board we have genuine right-wing posts almost indistinguishable from self-parody. > > What gave yours away was the absence both of the misplaced bitterness of the under-informed and the pompous snark of “erudite” right-wingers. Ah, point taken. At the time I wrote it, I thought the two contradictory statements would be enough of a marker. I’d have dropped in the emoticon, but I usually do that when it’s a mirror of what I’m emoting, and those muscles are unresponsive from overuse. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/129 "2011-03-05T18:59:08Z")
> [@furt](#): > > That’s not surprising to me; just as people will always knock “congress” but then approve of most all specific congressman or say “cut spending” but then oppose cuts on any particular programs, we’re inclined to say public unions are bad ideas … except for teachers, and cops, and firemen, and trashmen, and mailmen and not in Wisconsin or in my state, etc. We’re stupid like that. > > In any event, he asked for “one single unbiased poll from Wisconsin or elsewhere, where public opinion isn’t on the side of the Democrats.” I gave it to him. I expect he’ll now explain why it doesn’t count, but hey, whatever. Well, it does count to show a poster was wrong on not being specific, but it really does not count much for your side on this specific issue. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/130 "2011-03-05T19:57:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You know you won’t have to work hard to get me to agree there’s a huge amount of hypocrisy here about stuff that Democrats do being okay, and very similar things that Repblicans do being sheer evil. > > But on your one tipping point example… I’m not so sure I agree. As I may have mentioned in that thread, there was a point in the eighties when forty GOP senators left to deny the Dems a quorum and Senate President Pro Tem Robert Byrd ordered the Senate Sergeant at Arms to arrest 'em. > > It happens, both sides do it, and I can’t really picture any reasonable posters here being all that outraged if the GOP did it again. Sure, there are some hard-core idiots that would say something, but… who cares? Yeah, I’m thinking I shouldn’t let myself be too worked up over a minority party pulling this crap. It’s one of those things that’s really annoying when the other side do it to you, but it’s part of the game I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/131 "2011-03-05T20:15:28Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It’s not entirely clear why getting a larger share of a smaller pot is better for poor people - that’s what happens with hardcore socialism. All else being equal, increasing the wealth of the country as a whole is in everyone’s interest. Of course, everything is very rarely equal… The thing is, history suggests that democrats are better for making a “bigger pot” AND for increasing equality. In other words, everyone gets poorer under Republican policies, even the rich, but the middle class and below are outright demolished so inequality increases. The reason for this is simple: Republicans value the “morality” of their policies more than they care about the health of the economy. To Republicans, tax breaks for the most wealthy are a moral imperative. Deregulation is a moral imperative. No-bid contracts are a moral imperative. You will not hear them argue that any of these lead to the best economy. They believe that it is a moral good on its own, and that this outweighs the damage to the economy. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/132 "2011-03-05T21:41:43Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > In most countries, everyone does best under a moderate centre-right government, and by world standards that’s where the Democrats are. The data I’m talking about are from the past 60 to 70 years, just to be clear. However, I suppose that you might argue that relative to the rest of the world, American liberalism hasn’t exceeded center-right. I’d likely disagree, but that’s not relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/133 "2011-03-05T22:45:27Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The data I’m talking about are from the past 60 to 70 years, just to be clear. However, I suppose that you might argue that relative to the rest of the world, American liberalism hasn’t exceeded center-right. I’d likely disagree, but that’s not relevant. I’m not aware of a time since FDR and the New Deal when there was anything approaching genuine socialism in mainstream American politics, but if there has been I’d be interested to hear about it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/134 "2011-03-05T22:51:20Z")
\*\*\*Official Republican position: * * * It’s my money. * * * Official Democratic position:\*\*\* It’s our money. _ **Actual position held by Republicans:** _ It’s my money and Jesus is Lord, and abortion kills widdle babies, and dark skin is scary, and guns, guns, guns. Whatever, yadda yadda yadda. It’s MY MONEY. * * * Actual position held by Democrats:\*\*\* It’s our money and I’ll just wet my beak a little, and let’s toss a few pennies to the crowd, and all -isms are “bad,” and scary dark people vote too. Whatever, yadda yadda yadda. It’s OUR MONEY. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/135 "2011-03-05T23:14:48Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Aaaccctually, someone here in the Pit (I believe) asserted that this board slants right wing, because it generally doesn’t question corporate power, or something like that. > > (Damn, I wish I could find it again… I think it was **gonzomax** who said it, but I’m not sure…?) It was more like there are a lot of defenders of corporate power and defense of the anti union movement. They are not a small part of the debate. There are lots of people who argue for the right on this board. A couple of them are not stupid. The latest thread in the pit has dredged up a few new ones who should even chagrin the rightys. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/136 "2011-03-05T23:25:58Z")
> [@furt](#): > > In any event, he asked for “one single unbiased poll from Wisconsin or elsewhere, where public opinion isn’t on the side of the Democrats.” I gave it to him. I expect he’ll now explain why it doesn’t count, but hey, whatever. Actually I will object. Here’s the result from the article: Forty-five percent of respondents to the survey said they would support curbing such rights to save state governments money. Now, maybe the question was worded differently, but this phrasing has two flaws in it and not insignificant ones. First, what Walker is doing isn’t about “curbing such rights.” It’s about eliminating the unions (well, at least those that didn’t contribute to Walker’s campaign). Second, it asks the question predicated upon the basis that doing so will save the state government money. It won’t. You want to bargain with the unions to deal with the deficit? Fine. They’ve already said they’ll come to the table. You want to completely eliminate the unions? That’s far beyond the issue of needing to “save the state governments money” because destroying the unions won’t give Wisconsin a single penny. But I’ll at least admit that the source is unbiased and you managed to use all 5 percentage points I spotted you. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/137 "2011-03-06T02:09:45Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > thank you, Straight Dope. thank you. > > yes, I’m sure I’ll be greeted by a spate of “don’t let the door hit you on the way out” posts. I knew this when I started the thread. > But, for reals. Some of you are just really fucking retarded in your absolute blind, biased devotion to everything Democrat. I think the thread on the justness and propriety of dodging a quorum as a valid exercise of political power just tipped the scale for me. You fucking idiots would be FOAMING at the mouth if this was being done by Republicans. Screaming about how they were usurping the will of the people. > > There’s other shit, too, but I frankly don’t care to go and point out threads where I truly wished that avowed “liberals” were disenfranchised. > > I can only take comfort in the fact that Republicans don’t have any crosshairs targeted on my specific Gender/SES/ethnicity. I guess I’ll have to deal with the abject incorporation of religiosity into civic life, though. > > Thanks a fucking lot. I’m neither a Republican nor a Democrat, and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I must conclude nonetheless that you are a fucking idiot. Thanks a fucking lot. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/138 "2011-03-06T04:06:33Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m not aware of a time since FDR and the New Deal when there was anything approaching genuine socialism in mainstream American politics, but if there has been I’d be interested to hear about it. It sounds like you jump from center right to genuine socialism. There’s a little room in between, it seems to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/139 "2011-03-06T05:09:57Z")
Guys, I have the best idea ever. Let’s all just say basically the same thing to each other over and over and over and over until somebody changes their mind! ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554/140 "2011-03-06T05:41:12Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Guys, I have the best idea ever. Let’s all just say basically the same thing to each other over and over and over and over until somebody changes their mind! Saying the same thing over and over goes against the public interest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-fucking-board-is-pushing-me-towards-voting-republican/573554.md?page=8)