# This has to stop: extreme actions at political gathering **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927 "2019-11-24T19:15:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/201 "2019-11-26T16:17:09Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Also, even if I was at the front of the line, with protesters standing directly in front of my car, it still wouldn’t matter if they’re protesting against abortion or against guns or what. They’re still human beings. That matters. You don’t treat people as things; that’s what sin is. > I wish I could claim credit for that last sentence, but no. It’s from Terry Pratchett’s _Carpe Jugulum_. In 49 years as a Christian, it’s easily the most insightful thing I’ve heard about sin. So naturally it was written by an atheist. Bravo for life’s little ironies. 🙂 Dammit! This space-bar is Still not an up-vote button… ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/202 "2019-11-26T17:23:13Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Speaking of assuming, could you link to that definition you quoted? I bet the law or reg containing the government definition defines ‘force’ somewhere too. Here you’re **assuming** that ‘standing in the street’ qualifies as ‘force’ with respect to the definition of terrorism. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you haven’t shown that you’re right to do so either. Here is the FBI’s stance: > **[Terrorism 2002/2005 | Federal Bureau of Investigation](https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005)** \*\* There is no single, universally accepted, definition of terrorism. Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. Section 0.85).\*\* I’m glad you asked me to quote it because some of the sources seem to truncate it a bit. The FBI cites “force and violence” which is significantly different than the code as quoted elsewhere. Given that it has to be force and violence, I’d concede that just blocking a road doesn’t meet the standard until rocks are thrown or people start swinging weapons. Or at least brandishing weapons, which I believe is legally considered a violent act. The event in the OP (which I remain convinced is BS by the way), if it did happen as claimed (a protestor blocking a vehicle and wielding a weapon) might count. To anyone who might dismiss the threat, a “stick” isn’t something you should dismiss as a weapon. A stick or pole of sufficient mass and structural strength can be a deadly weapon, with even one strike to the head. Or through the windshield of a moving car it could cause a multiple fatality accident. I can’t tell from the video if it was the equivalent of a baseball bat or a yard stick. (Or a painted Nerf bat given my belief that it was fake.) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/203 "2019-11-26T18:09:37Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Also, even if I was at the front of the line, with protesters standing directly in front of my car, it still wouldn’t matter if they’re protesting against abortion or against guns or what. They’re still human beings. That matters. You don’t treat people as things; that’s what sin is. > > I wish I could claim credit for that last sentence, but no. It’s from Terry Pratchett’s _Carpe Jugulum_. In 49 years as a Christian, it’s easily the most insightful thing I’ve heard about sin. So naturally it was written by an atheist. Bravo for life’s little ironies. 🙂 While I’ll always politely applaud anyone who recognizes Sir PTerry’s contributions to life, the Universe, and everything ; if I’m being honest my own take is much more down to Earth : if your life if SO important ; and what you’re going to be late for is SO impossibly crucial that you cannot possibly just… hang back and appreciate a good protest, or even a \*bad \*one, just because you now have a legit good reason As Seen On TV to let your bucket chair down and back, close your eyes, crank up the System of a Down (or the Vivaldi, I ain’t judging here, you can be as white a person as you like ! :p) and just let it _all_ go for a while… Then you’re \*probably \*the [kind of guy Bill Hicks was talking about](https://youtu.be/4dstDn31ZqE?t=225) when he was riffing about “not only should marijuana be legalized, it should be _mandatory_.” ;). ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/204 "2019-11-26T18:32:23Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > While I’ll always politely applaud anyone who recognizes Sir PTerry’s contributions to life, the Universe, and everything ; if I’m being honest my own take is much more down to Earth : if your life if SO important ; and what you’re going to be late for is SO impossibly crucial that you cannot possibly just… hang back and appreciate a good protest, or even a \*bad \*one, just because you now have a legit good reason As Seen On TV to let your bucket chair down and back, close your eyes, crank up the System of a Down (or the Vivaldi, I ain’t judging here, you can be as white a person as you like ! :p) and just let it _all_ go for a while… > Then you’re \*probably \*the [kind of guy Bill Hicks was talking about](https://youtu.be/4dstDn31ZqE?t=225) when he was riffing about “not only should marijuana be legalized, it should be _mandatory_.” ;). Gotta say, I like your take on it as well. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/205 "2019-11-26T18:39:45Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > You missed out a crucial part of the synopsis. The guy hits the vehicle after the driver drove his vehicle into him for several yards. > > Neither person comes out looking good, and both should face criminal charges. The driver should face more serious charges for the brutal physical assault. He had the other guy on the floor, not fighting back. He could have restrained him, but instead proceeded to punch the man in the head several times. Uh there was only one person to break the law … Hint: It wasn’t the driver ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/206 "2019-11-26T18:43:44Z")
All you people asserting that blocking traffic is a terrorist-like offense and one is justified in forcing one’s way through – even with a vehicle – or “ending the threat” by assault ARE in fact in favor of arresting or assaulting pro-life protesters blocking access to abortion clinics…right? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/207 "2019-11-26T18:49:23Z")
I’ve never come across the idea of shoving someone with a car. Is that like vehicular assault? Smells like it. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/208 "2019-11-26T18:51:27Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Uh there was only one person to break the law … Hint: It wasn’t the driver If ‘compliant with the law’ is where you set your morality bar, I’ve got…30000+ years of human history that wants to have a word. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/209 "2019-11-26T18:52:40Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Gotta say, I like your take on it as well. 🙂 Kumbaya, my not\_recognized\_as\_a\_reasonable\_moral\_authority Lord, kumbaya ! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/210 "2019-11-26T19:42:47Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > If ‘compliant with the law’ is where you set your morality bar, I’ve got…30000+ years of human history that wants to have a word. Morality? Compliant with the law is where I set my “at fault” bar and my “should face criminal charges” bar. Which was in the post I quoted … ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/211 "2019-11-26T19:48:23Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > All you people asserting that blocking traffic is a terrorist-like offense and one is justified in forcing one’s way through – even with a vehicle – or “ending the threat” by assault ARE in fact in favor of arresting or assaulting pro-life protesters blocking access to abortion clinics…right? Running people over with your car is vehicular assault or even homicide depending on the result. That’s not okay. That’s being a sociopath. Pro-life protestors blocking access to a clinic should be dispersed, absolutely. By law enforcement of course. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/212 "2019-11-26T20:09:10Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Uh there was only one person to break the law … Hint: It wasn’t the driver …we don’t know what happened, we don’t know where it happened, we don’t know what happened before the video started, we don’t know what happened after, we know fuck-all about what happened here. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/213 "2019-11-26T20:39:05Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > An Antifa guy tried blocking someone’s car, smacks the car with a bat or pipe. It did not end well for him. > > [Protester Tries to Block a Car and Assault Someone, It Doesn't Go Well (Seriously) [UPDATED] – RedState](https://www.redstate.com/bonchie/2019/11/23/antifa-member-tries-block-car-assault-someone-doesnt-go-well-seriously/) > > Can’t we discuss civilly? Protest civilly? Agree to disagree, then vote accordingly? Where is it a given that this person is Antifa? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/214 "2019-11-26T21:47:00Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …we don’t know what happened, we don’t know where it happened, we don’t know what happened before the video started, we don’t know what happened after, we know fuck-all about what happened here. Right right When its your side, video evidence is proof of nothing. I get it. I mean his mom could have given him fucking tuna fish instead of the ham he asked for. His boss could have docked him for taking off even though his leave wasn’t approved. But from the video , we do KNOW. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/215 "2019-11-26T22:05:57Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Right right > When its your side, video evidence is proof of nothing. I get it. …you don’t even know what fucking side I’m on. You don’t fucking get it. > [@](#): > > I mean his mom could have given him fucking tuna fish instead of the ham he asked for. His boss could have docked him for taking off even though his leave wasn’t approved. Is the video real? Was is staged? Was it an attempt at a viral prank? Russian propaganda? Road rage? An actual real protest? Where was it filmed? Who filmed it? What city? > [@](#): > > But from the video , we do KNOW. No we fucking don’t. We know nothing about the video except what the original twitter poster claimed (that it was Extinction Rebellion/Antifa) and what Red State speculated (“This is likely just a regular, Antifa anti-capitalist”) That is all we KNOW. Until you can show the provenance of the video all that it is is a video. It shows and demonstrates nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/216 "2019-11-26T22:10:08Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > But from the video , we do KNOW. No, you don’t. You really, really don’t. For all we know this could have been performance art with all sides in on it and either Jaime Kennedy or Ashton Kutcher sliding their smarmy asses on out from the sidelines after yelling “cut”. Show me a name. Show me a police report. Show me Verifiable Facts or get lost. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/217 "2019-11-26T22:16:52Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Right right > When its your side, video evidence is proof of nothing. I get it. > I mean his mom could have given him fucking tuna fish instead of the ham he asked for. His boss could have docked him for taking off even though his leave wasn’t approved. > But from the video , we do KNOW. All we know is that it is a video. [Just like this one.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoLhLn9hVkE) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/218 "2019-11-26T22:25:19Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Uh there was only one person to break the law … Hint: It wasn’t the driver If the pedestrian had instead been in a car and had blocked the road, should the other guy have used his vehicle to ram the car and push it out of the way? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/219 "2019-11-26T22:31:01Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You are a special kind of special. You do realize there is a big difference between extrajudicial mob violence and violence as a mechanism that the governed have chosen to use as a tool? Please tell me you are not equating a democratic state with checks and balances and due process and written law with terrorists, thugs, and vigilantes? Then why are you defending the extrajudicial violence of the driver first hitting the pedestrian with his car then getting out and beating him? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/220 "2019-11-26T22:45:15Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Then why are you defending the extrajudicial violence of the driver first hitting the pedestrian with his car then getting out and beating him? If someone is blocking your legal right of way pushing them out of the way is fine by me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927.md?page=12)