# This has to stop: extreme actions at political gathering **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927 "2019-11-24T19:15:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/261 "2019-11-27T14:37:43Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > What if it had been a tank. He wouldn’t have hit it then! What if it was an airplane? > What if it was a squirrel? > > We aren’t talking about what ifs. If someone in a car/on a motorbike/bicycle blocked the path of another vehicle for less than two seconds, I think any reasonable person would conclude that the driver in the blocked vehicle would not have the right to drive into the car/motorbike/bicycle in order to push it out of the way. I think any reasonable person would think this course of action unjustifiable and more than a bit crazy\*. Why is it different if the person is not in a vehicle, but rather on foot? From the video, the person “blocking the road” for the longest period of time is the driver, who isn’t even in his vehicle at the start of the video, while it sits driverless in the middle of the road. - I would consider it unjustifiable to drive a vehicle into and push a pedestrian backwards for several yards in any circumstances, unless in clear physical danger from that person, but we are talking about _this_ video in which the path of the vehicle is blocked for less than two seconds. From the video, there is no indication that the driver is in clear and imminent danger of physical harm. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/262 "2019-11-27T15:00:39Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > If he felt threatened, it seems a bit silly to get out of the car, doesn’t it? No. Already discussed this. It’s a tactical error to let a threat approach you like that. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/263 "2019-11-27T15:02:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No. Already discussed this. It’s a tactical error to let a threat approach you like that. If you get out of your car, seems like a tactical error not to immediately run away. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/264 "2019-11-27T15:09:17Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > If someone in a car/on a motorbike/bicycle blocked the path of another vehicle for less than two seconds, I think any reasonable person would conclude that the driver in the blocked vehicle would not have the right to drive into the car/motorbike/bicycle in order to push it out of the way. I think any reasonable person would think this course of action unjustifiable and more than a bit crazy\*. Why is it different if the person is not in a vehicle, but rather on foot? > > From the video, the person “blocking the road” for the longest period of time is the driver, who isn’t even in his vehicle at the start of the video, while it sits driverless in the middle of the road. > > - I would consider it unjustifiable to drive a vehicle into and push a pedestrian backwards for several yards in any circumstances, unless in clear physical danger from that person, but we are talking about _this_ video in which the path of the vehicle is blocked for less than two seconds. From the video, there is no indication that the driver is in clear and imminent danger of physical harm. Woah,woah,woah… The pedestrian was clearly blocking the drivers Constitutional Right to Liberty of Movement on a Public Roadway. Also, he was being very scary with the mask and stick. Of course you barge at him with your 4500lb vehicle and provoke him further. In doing so, you become fully justified in getting out of your car and beating the snot out of him. Which he had coming, no doubt. But you must make sure to provoke him first, so you can stand your ground after. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/265 "2019-11-27T15:14:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No. Already discussed this. It’s a tactical error to let a threat approach you like that. He was really scary with his white little backpack. Full of gluten free snacks and smart water, no doubt. Might have even had some nuts in there. People with allergies can’t take any chances. What does your tactical theory say about diffusing a situation rather than taking aggressive action to make it worse? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/266 "2019-11-27T15:22:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No. Already discussed this. It’s a tactical error to let a threat approach you like that. On a scale from one to ten, how incredibly, debilitatingly paranoid are you on a day-to-day basis? ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/267 "2019-11-27T15:23:19Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Again. The entire discussion revolves around this video. We are discussing THIS video. This video… is inconclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/268 "2019-11-27T16:07:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > We talked about the video. Unless you can come up with more factual information about that video, it is more interesting to talk about your obsessive need to latch onto dubious ficts to support your beliefs. I perceive someone wearing a mask while yelling at me and blocking my way as a threat. That’s a fact. Regardless of the circumstances behind the video this is how such behavior will be viewed by many people. When discussing this in legal context it’s judged from the perspective of “the average man”. there are 2 different discussions going on and they’re getting interwoven in this thread. One is an internet trial of the video. The other is human behavior. You can’t use the argument that there is not enough information in the video against a discussion of how people react in a confrontation. I plead guilty of the reverse. So to be clear, as a theoretical point, what the masked person did appears threatening regardless of the events leading up to it. The driver may have just run over his favorite parrot and thus triggered the sudden need to put on a mask and act crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/269 "2019-11-27T16:10:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I perceive someone wearing a mask while yelling at me and blocking my way as a threat. That’s a fact. > > Regardless of the circumstances behind the video this is how such behavior will be viewed. > > there are 2 different discussions going on and they’re getting interwoven in this thread. One is an internet trial of the video. The other is human behavior. You can’t use the argument that there is not enough information in the video against a discussion of how people react in a confrontation. I plead guilty of the reverse. > > So to be clear, as a theoretical point, what the masked person did appears threatening regardless of the events leading up to it. The driver may have just run over his favorite parrot and thus triggered the sudden need to put on a mask and act crazy. What a vivid imagination. You should write fan fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/270 "2019-11-27T16:15:44Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > On a scale from one to ten, how incredibly, debilitatingly paranoid are you on a day-to-day basis? I don’t know, how do you normally perceive a masked person yelling at you on a scale from one to ten? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/271 "2019-11-27T16:16:34Z")
It really does seem like conservatives are incredibly paranoid about everything, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/272 "2019-11-27T16:18:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :dubious: Do you really not understand the difference between the claims _“This is a deliberate effort to encourage the attitude that violently assaulting protestors blocking traffic is normal and reasonable, in order to [exert a repressive effect on acts of civil protest](https://www.aclu.org/issues/free-speech/rights-protesters/repression-peaceful-protest)”_, and _“I personally am presently being repressed”_? > > Or was that just a consciously desperate attempt at further goalpost-shifting? No. I have no problem with people peacefully and legally protesting on the sidewalk or in a park. Stay off the roads unless you have permit. Definitely keep your hands off of people and their property. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Maybe we should stop assuming that the guy who hedged for like a page on whether or not Heather Hayes was responsible for her own murder at the hand of neo-nazis has anything of value to say on… > > …anything. At all. Seriously, just stop responding to him. He’s a fucking tool and the sooner everyone stops reading and quoting what he says, the better. I’m not sure you’re in a position to lecture on morality. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/273 "2019-11-27T16:18:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What a vivid imagination. You should write fan fiction. how so? What’s highly imaginative about it? Did I imagine the mask? It looked like he was yelling at the driver. Be specific. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/274 "2019-11-27T16:21:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t know, how do you normally perceive a masked person yelling at you on a scale from one to ten? From inside a 4500 lb battering ram, I see a harmless nut. ETA:Which direction does the scale run? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/275 "2019-11-27T16:21:51Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [Redstate.Com](http://Redstate.Com) again. My, oh my; it is to pity. > Attacked by car, antifa responds aggressively. My; what a scandal! > > _**[Redstate.Com](http://Redstate.Com)**_ — I can’t get over the irony of the citation! > Are you and your ilk even vaguely self-aware? Your leader has called for right-wingers to be violent and you get constipated over one antifa??? My. > > I know the right-wing and white nationalists hate a lot more types than just Muslims, but one Googles as one can: > > [Here’s a list of Islamophobic incidents in the U.S.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamophobic_incidents#United_States): > But as long as your ilk has petite Yvette Falarca pushing a neo-Nazi to point to, you’re happy with “Tu quoque. You too!” > > Right-wing hypocrisy makes me sick. > > And … _**[Redstate.Com](http://Redstate.Com)**_ :smack: No; I guess you really aren’t even self-aware. I notice you were careful enough to clarify that it is specifically right wing hypocrisy that makes you sick. A bit of honesty! So rare. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/276 "2019-11-27T16:22:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t know, how do you normally perceive a masked person yelling at you on a scale from one to ten? It happens so rarely that it’s usually quite dependent on context. Of which we have none we can trust (a random polish neo-nazi on Twitter and a right-wing propaganda blog that makes its headline up out of whole cloth). Everything else is pretty much fan fiction. But y’know what I wouldn’t do in most circumstances? _Escalate_. I wouldn’t try to run them over, provoke them, or get out of the car and try to beat the shit out of them. That’d be stupid, pointless, and only raise the odds that someone gets hurt. It’s this bizarre chest-fluffing “warrior” mentality that we really need to stop teaching to our cops that I just don’t get. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/277 "2019-11-27T16:25:55Z")
I look at that little video as a rightwing Rorschach Test, where they project like a motherfucker, half taking what is there and twisting it and half seeing what isn’t really there at all. Is there a word that means both “pathetic” _and_ “entertaining”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/278 "2019-11-27T16:28:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I notice you were careful enough to clarify that it is specifically right wing hypocrisy that makes you sick. A bit of honesty! So rare. I notice that you were duplicitous enough to insert the word “specifically” where it never existed before. How…boringly predictable. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/279 "2019-11-27T16:38:08Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > From inside a 4500 lb battering ram, I see a harmless nut. > ETA:Which direction does the scale run? OK, you admitted he appears crazy. Now explain how you were able to ascertain he was harmless? Because we just had a crazy person, a left wing wackjob, kill 8 people. His politics aren’t the issue but his mental state is. If you have a skill the rest of us don’t have then tell me how you know a person wearing a mask while blocking someone and yelling hat them is harmless. I would genuinely like to know. As for the 4500 lb battering ram the driver didn’t run over the masked person. He slowly inched a screaming masked loon back. He didn’t hurt him but used a minimal amount of force to back him up. It’s literally comparable to my personal example posted earlier of a large muscled man getting into my face. I shoulder butted him back. This was this minimum amount of force needed to maintain my safety because I had no way of knowing how fucked up the guy was. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/280 "2019-11-27T16:52:06Z")
Watching you try to justify vehicular assault isn’t a bad way to spend my morning. Please continue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927.md?page=15)