# This has to stop: extreme actions at political gathering **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927 "2019-11-24T19:15:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/21 "2019-11-25T04:19:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > By opening the door he was able to knock him off balance and neutralize both types of attack. If you were genuinely frightened that a guy who hit your vehicle with a stick because you shoved him with your vehicle might escalate his retaliation, you might open your door to shove him off balance and then shut the door and drive away. You wouldn’t stop and get out of the vehicle and approach him. Pretending that the driver had a legitimate self-defense reason for exiting his vehicle to beat up the traffic-blocker is just rationalizing road rage. You shouldn’t be shoving people with your vehicle, no matter how frustrated you are at their illegal blocking of traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/22 "2019-11-25T04:25:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :rolleyes: “Eliminating the threat” is not an adequate justification for beating up other people at whim. it wasn’t on a whim. The man showed he was violent and was holding a weapon and struck his vehicle with it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/23 "2019-11-25T04:32:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > it wasn’t on a whim. The man showed he was violent and was holding a weapon and struck his vehicle with it. After the driver showed he was violent and shoved the man with his vehicle, which is a far deadlier weapon than a stick. Even if the road-ragey driver felt endangered because the man he pushed with his vehicle retaliated by hitting his vehicle with a stick, exiting his vehicle to beat the guy up was definitely violence on a whim rather than rational self-defense. Shoving people with your vehicle is assault. You may be sitting behind the wheel in a padded seat feeling like the vehicle is just an extension of your body so you get to push people with it, but it’s a violent and dangerous thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/24 "2019-11-25T04:35:16Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If you were genuinely frightened that a guy who hit your vehicle with a stick because you shoved him with your vehicle might escalate his retaliation, you might open your door to shove him off balance and then shut the door and drive away. You wouldn’t stop and get out of the vehicle and approach him. I missed the part of the story where it was known ahead of time the person demonstrating violence was unarmed. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Pretending that the driver had a legitimate self-defense reason for exiting his vehicle to beat up the traffic-blocker is just rationalizing road rage. You shouldn’t be shoving people with your vehicle, no matter how frustrated you are at their illegal blocking of traffic. There’s no pretending here. he had every right to subdue someone who demonstrated use of a weapon. There’s simply no way of knowing what the wackjob was going to do or what weapons he possessed. All the driver knew is that he was a screaming loon who demonstrated a violent act with a weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/25 "2019-11-25T04:41:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I missed the part of the story where it was known ahead of time the person demonstrating violence was unarmed. As has been pointed out already, exiting your vehicle to beat someone up is even stupider if the person is armed. The driver’s getting out to beat up the guy makes zero sense except as some kind of violent road-rage revenge fantasy. > [@Magiver](#): > > he had every right to subdue someone who demonstrated use of a weapon. Who in turn had every right to defend himself against someone who had assaulted him with a vehicle, of course. > [@Magiver](#): > > All the driver knew is that he was a screaming loon who demonstrated a violent act with a weapon. :dubious: “All”? Gosh, you mean the driver had already forgotten that he’d assaulted the guy with his vehicle? That’s one forgetful driver. Recall the summary already given in post #12: > [@Walken After Midnight](#): > > The guy hits the vehicle after the driver drove his vehicle into him for several yards. > > Neither person comes out looking good, and both should face criminal charges. The driver should face more serious charges for the brutal physical assault. He had the other guy on the floor, not fighting back. He could have restrained him, but instead proceeded to punch the man in the head several times. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/26 "2019-11-25T04:46:55Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > After the driver showed he was violent and shoved the man with his vehicle, which is a far deadlier weapon than a stick. Yes, a car CAN be used as a deadly weapon but it wasn’t in this case. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Even if the road-ragey driver felt endangered because the man he pushed with his vehicle retaliated by hitting his vehicle with a stick, exiting his vehicle to beat the guy up was definitely violence on a whim rather than rational self-defense. No, it’s not on a whim. there was demonstrated violence with a weapon. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Shoving people with your vehicle is assault. So is threatening someone with a weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/27 "2019-11-25T04:51:35Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Recall the summary already given in post #12: the summary lacks the fact that there’s a screaming loon wearing a mask and holding weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/28 "2019-11-25T04:59:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > the summary lacks the fact that there’s a screaming loon wearing a mask and holding weapon. You should not assault people by shoving them with your vehicle, whether they’re screaming or not, whether they’re holding a stick or not. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/29 "2019-11-25T05:02:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > You should not assault people by shoving them with your vehicle, whether they’re screaming or not, whether they’re holding a stick or not. Why? What’s you’re method of dealing with what any rational person would perceive as a crazy person with a weapon? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/30 "2019-11-25T05:08:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Why? What’s you’re method of dealing with what any rational person would perceive as a crazy person with a weapon? If I see a traffic-blocking protestor holding a stick, I don’t run into them with my vehicle. If I did, it would not be particularly surprising, much less “crazy”, if they retaliated by hitting my vehicle with the stick. If I see traffic-blocking protestors, I mutter some unkind words and wait for the road to be clear again, either by the protestors’ spontaneously withdrawing from the road or by law enforcement removing them. I don’t get so “royally pissed off” that I assault the protestors by driving my vehicle into them. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/31 "2019-11-25T05:10:43Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If I see a traffic-blocking protestor holding a stick, I don’t run into them with my vehicle. If I did, it would not be particularly surprising, much less “crazy”, if they retaliated by hitting my vehicle with the stick. > > If I see traffic-blocking protestors, I mutter some unkind words and wait for the road to be clear again, either by the protestors’ spontaneously withdrawing from the road or by law enforcement removing them. I don’t get so “royally pissed off” that I assault the protestors by driving my vehicle into them. I missed the certification process you used to ascertain the armed/masked screaming loon wasn’t a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/32 "2019-11-25T05:19:29Z")
_ **KILL THE EXTREMISTS!!!** _ One of my favorite bumper stickers. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/33 "2019-11-25T05:20:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I missed the certification process you used to ascertain the armed/masked screaming loon wasn’t a threat. Well, not being a pants-wetting paranoid scaredy-cat like so many superficially “tough guy” types, I don’t actually require a situation to be formally certified as totally non-threatening in order to refrain from losing my head and committing assault by deliberately driving my vehicle into traffic-blocking protestors. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/34 "2019-11-25T05:24:32Z")
ISTM that not deliberately blocking traffic is an excellent first step to avoiding getting one’s ass beat. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/35 "2019-11-25T05:27:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, not being a pants-wetting paranoid scaredy-cat like so many superficially “tough guy” types, I don’t actually require a situation to be formally certified as totally non-threatening in order to refrain from losing my head and committing assault by deliberately driving my vehicle into traffic-blocking protestors. Best of luck with the pants-wetting paranoid people wearing masks and carrying weapons. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/36 "2019-11-25T05:33:31Z")
The article, dated 11/23/2019, says the video “surfaced” “yesterday.” Yet the only protests I could find that happened Friday was one in Iran and the ongoing Hong Kong protests. S The deeply biased website says “this is likely” an Antifa protestor. Based on…? So what we’ve got is a man who may or may not be Antifa at what may or may not be a protest that apparently didn’t happen last Friday as reported by a deeply biased website. That certainly is worthy of :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/37 "2019-11-25T05:36:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > ISTM that not deliberately blocking traffic is an excellent first step to avoiding getting one’s ass beat. Like I said: > [@Kimstu](#): > > Blocking traffic is stupid and thoughtless, but it’s a traffic violation, not an excuse for assault. > > Pushing a traffic-blocker with your vehicle and then beating him up when he hits your vehicle is just seizing an excuse to indulge your road rage. > [@Magiver](#): > > Best of luck with the pants-wetting paranoid people wearing masks and carrying weapons. Well, I’d say that having the elementary common sense and self-control to refrain from going into a road-rage meltdown and deliberately driving a vehicle into protestors blocking traffic doesn’t really count as “luck”. Whether or not they happen to be wearing masks or holding sticks. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/38 "2019-11-25T05:39:43Z")
IDGAF what s/he was protesting. #DontBlockRoads ETA: Blocking traffic may not be an _excuse_ for assault, but it was the _reason_ for assault. People can choose to learn from this miserable idiot’s mistake, or they can not. It’s your / their choice. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/39 "2019-11-25T05:41:01Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > The article, dated 11/23/2019, says the video “surfaced” “yesterday.” Yet the only protests I could find that happened Friday was one in Iran and the ongoing Hong Kong protests. S > > The deeply biased website says “this is likely” an Antifa protestor. Based on…? > > So what we’ve got is a man who may or may not be Antifa at what may or may not be a protest that apparently didn’t happen last Friday as reported by a deeply biased website. That certainly is worthy of :rolleyes: Not surprising. I thought there was a more detailed summary posted upthread, but if nobody actually has a reliable account of what happened, then the argument is basically moot. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/40 "2019-11-25T05:44:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > IDGAF what s/he was protesting. #DontBlockRoads IDGAF either, but you shouldn’t deliberately run into people with your vehicle even if they **are** blocking roads. What the hell is the problem with people who think that illegal blocking of roads somehow justifies deliberately running a vehicle into pedestrians? Your being inconvenienced in your use of the public highways does not make it okay for you to deliberately risk killing or maiming people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927.md?page=3)