# This has to stop: extreme actions at political gathering **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927 "2019-11-24T19:15:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/621 "2020-01-05T01:34:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > A person is entitled to use force (in proportion) to unlawful interference. IN PROPORTION. YOU SAID IT YOURSELF. Jesus Christ, what a weenie. Umbrella =/= FOUR THOUSAND POUND TRUCK ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/622 "2020-01-05T05:47:48Z")
> [@margin](#): > > IN PROPORTION. YOU SAID IT YOURSELF. yes proportional. All the driver wanted to do is leave. he didn’t floor it and flatten the masked man. he slowly pulled out to give him the option to back off. when I asked how you normally perceive a masked person yelling at you on a scale from one to ten your response in post 283 was: Less than zero. Seriously, you’re in a vehicle. \*Drive the fuck away. that’s exactly what he was trying to do in the video. He was trying to drive the fuck away. He did it in a way that caused no harm. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/623 "2020-01-05T06:11:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yes proportional. All the driver wanted to do is leave. he didn’t floor it and flatten the masked man. he slowly pulled out to give him the option to back off. > > when I asked how you normally perceive a masked person yelling at you on a scale from one to ten your response in post 283 was: > > Less than zero. Seriously, you’re in a vehicle. \*Drive the fuck away. > > that’s exactly what he was trying to do in the video. He was trying to drive the fuck away. He did it in a way that caused no harm. Now that the original video is there for all to see and you’ve had ample opportunity to view it, we no longer have to pretend that you might not know what was going on in that situation, so… _ **You are nothing more that a lying piece of crap.** _. There is no reason to try to correct someone if they are deliberately _in_correct, so Buh bye. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/624 "2020-01-05T08:17:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yes proportional. All the driver wanted to do is leave. he didn’t floor it and flatten the masked man. he slowly pulled out to give him the option to back off. > > when I asked how you normally perceive a masked person yelling at you on a scale from one to ten your response in post 283 was: > > Less than zero. Seriously, you’re in a vehicle. \*Drive the fuck away. > > that’s exactly what he was trying to do in the video. He was trying to drive the fuck away. He did it in a way that caused no harm. And yet, when the pedestrian was no longer in the way, the driver chose to stop the vehicle and escalate the situation yet again. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/625 "2020-01-05T15:04:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s not how the law reads. > > (1) A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. This is a bold faced lie by omission. This is what it reads in full, as previously quoted by you earlier: > [@Magiver](#): > > In Wisconsin, the use of force is outlined in state statute 939.48, which reads: > > (1) A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. **The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.** Why did you omit the bolded part and do you now admit to intentionally lying by omission? > [@Magiver](#): > > The driver was repeatedly blocked by the masked turn-signal avenger. He used minimal force to leave. Had the masked man not continued the escalation then he would have walked away unharmed. But he chose to continue escalating it until he was harmed in a fist-fight. The driver was inconvenienced but never in imminent threat. He had the opportunity to drive away when the pedestrian walked to the side of his truck. He chose instead to stop his vehicle, get out, and assault him physically. Do you admit now, based on the last video, that the driver’s decision to assault the pedestrian was not made from necessity or imminent threat on his person? > [@Magiver](#): > > I’ve posted a cite regarding the law in a situation like this. A person is entitled to use force (in proportion) to unlawful interference. I’ve given a personal example of using measured force in front of a policeman in response to someone deliberately blocking me. It was the person blocking me who received the officer’s attention. Not me. No. You’ve posted an anecdote of an incident that happened to you. I have no way knowing what extenuating circumstances existed at the time. It could have just as easily resulted in you earning a citation from a different police officer for escalation or confrontation. In which case, you’d be far less likely to be citing this as some sort of “legal” justification for an unrelated incident on video. > [@Magiver](#): > > This is what appears in the video. But there is a disconnect between the idea of the arbitrary use of a car to push a random person out of the way vs it’s use as a measured force in the face of a specific person deliberately blocking the way. It was done in such a way as to avoid harming the person blocking the car. It was done after first stopping and talking to the person deliberately blocking the way. There’s a disconnect, alright. > [@Magiver](#): > > This is the argument that people don’t seem to understand and refuse to address beyond single line name calling. I don’t see where the bullying tactic of name calling serves any purpose. When I see people repeatedly doing this in public to others I’m not surprised at the eventual outcome of isolation it creates for the bully. No. What you are upset about is that people called you out for being a liar. What you want to happen is for people to give you a pass for being a liar and to allow you to get away with it. This is what you consider to be the polite behavior that is somehow owed to you. Maybe you get to get away with this kind of “who me?!” bullshit in daily life. But you didn’t get away with it here. Unlikely that you can expect that to change going forward unless you change your behavior. Moral of the story: Don’t be a liar and people won’t call you out for being a liar. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/626 "2020-01-05T15:35:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yes proportional. All the driver wanted to do is leave. he didn’t floor it and flatten the masked man. he slowly pulled out to give him the option to back off. > > when I asked how you normally perceive a masked person yelling at you on a scale from one to ten your response in post 283 was: > > Less than zero. Seriously, you’re in a vehicle. \*Drive the fuck away. > > that’s exactly what he was trying to do in the video. He was trying to drive the fuck away. He did it in a way that caused no harm. You lying sack of shit. 200-lb.man, in your world, EQUALS FOUR THOUSAND POUND TRUCK?? Say it, flat out then, so you can’t deny it later. You want to run over and kill anybody if you label them “antifa.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/627 "2020-01-05T17:37:04Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > And yet, when the pedestrian was no longer in the way, the driver chose to stop the vehicle and escalate the situation yet again. The “pedestrian” is a masked man pounding and likely damaging the vehicle. He is the one who started it, continued the escalation after the verbal confrontation, and then pounded on the car. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/628 "2020-01-05T18:03:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The “pedestrian” is a masked man pounding and likely damaging the vehicle. He is the one who started it, continued the escalation after the verbal confrontation, and then pounded on the car. Bullshit. You’re like a guy saying a girl’s tiny little skirt provoked you. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/629 "2020-01-05T18:15:05Z")
> [@margin](#): > > You lying sack of shit. You don’t seem to be able to control your emotions in a simple conversation. You’re exhibiting the electronic equivalent of road rage. > [@margin](#): > > 200-lb.man, in your world, EQUALS FOUR THOUSAND POUND TRUCK?? As the 4000 lb truck was not used to injure him I’m not sure what your point is. Yes, 4000 is more than 200. That’s not the same argument as running someone over with a 4000 lb car. Since this didn’t happen your argument doesn’t work. > [@margin](#): > > Say it, flat out then, so you can’t deny it later. You want to run over and kill anybody if you label them “antifa.” Not only have I not labeled the person in the video as antifa I specifically said you CAN’T tell what the political affiliation is of either party. I said it in post 489 and repeated it in post 617. I cited law based on proportional response. What the driver did was attempt to drive away and per your own post is what he should have done. I would think it obvious from my posts that I think the masked person was the person who started the altercation and continued it until it rose to the level of a fist fight. What that masked man was doing was not rational and we have since learned he was acting as some kind of vigilante turn signal police. Had he done this to a police officer it’s likely he would have been tased and arrested. For you to say I want to kill people is irrational hatred on your part. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/630 "2020-01-05T18:19:21Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Bullshit. > > You’re like a guy saying a girl’s tiny little skirt provoked you. No, it’s not like saying that at all. That literally makes no sense. I’ve given an example of someone blocking me. It happened in front of a police officer. I cut right through him. The officer then went on to school the person blocking me. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/631 "2020-01-05T18:25:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The “pedestrian” is a masked man pounding and likely damaging the vehicle. He is the one who started it, continued the escalation after the verbal confrontation, and then pounded on the car. Yep, the guy hitting a car ONCE after being struck and pushed by it is the one escalating. It’s like your continued assertion that he REPEATEDLY blocked the vehicle. For all anyone can see, he did so once. But hey, keep living in your fantasy where you can assault a person and get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/632 "2020-01-05T18:33:00Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Why did you omit the bolded part and do you now admit to intentionally lying by omission? the additional part left out reinforces what the law states and what I have discussed. Proportional use of force. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > The driver was inconvenienced but never in imminent threat. He had the opportunity to drive away when the pedestrian walked to the side of his truck. He chose instead to stop his vehicle, get out, and assault him physically. proportional force is exactly what it says. Proportional. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Do you admit now, based on the last video, that the driver’s decision to assault the pedestrian was not made from necessity or imminent threat on his person? The driver reacted to what sounds like damage to his car. And in a court of law his behavior is judged on what a [reasonable person](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_person) would do. If you provoke a person into a fight and a fight ensues the fault is on the person provoking the fight. In this case the masked person has continued to provoke him with no apparent cause or sign he is going to stop. The driver tries to leave the area using reasoned constraint of the speed of his vehicle. It’s clear he’s not trying to cause harm by running him over and no harm is created. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/633 "2020-01-05T19:31:50Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > It’s like your continued assertion that he REPEATEDLY blocked the vehicle. For all anyone can see, he did so once. As there are people videoing it and one of them is yelling to get out of the road the reasonable assumption is that he was blocking the driver prior. I think you’re being disingenuous considering the additional knowledge that the masked man was blocking him because he didn’t use his turn signal. I think the average person would view a masked person blocking traffic over lack of turn signals as someone not acting rationally. If you can’t reason with an unstable person then the next step is to leave the area as best you can without causing harm. This is what the driver did in the video. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/634 "2020-01-05T21:41:46Z")
Yo, Magiver. What does the law state about intentionally hitting someone with a two-ton automobile; how is that automobile classified in such an instance? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2020, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/635 "2020-01-05T23:25:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > As there are people videoing it and one of them is yelling to get out of the road the reasonable assumption is that he was blocking the driver prior. > > I think you’re being disingenuous considering the additional knowledge that the masked man was blocking him because he didn’t use his turn signal. > > I think the average person would view a masked person blocking traffic over lack of turn signals as someone not acting rationally. If you can’t reason with an unstable person then the next step is to leave the area as best you can without causing harm. This is what the driver did in the video. Disingenuous - like constantly referring to everything the pedestrian did as violent acts while ignoring that the same definitions easily and more appropriately describe the actions of the driver? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/636 "2020-01-06T00:19:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, it’s not like saying that at all. That literally makes no sense. > > I’ve given an example of someone blocking me. It happened in front of a police officer. I cut right through him. The officer then went on to school the person blocking me. Um, what you’re doing is whining that an unarmed pedestrian is the REAL offender here, because you decided he’s somebody you hate. You keep insisting that the guy who threatened to run him over and DID grab him and punch him is somehow the victim. Yeah. Blaming the victim and insisting that THEY’RE the really evil person sounds like a rapist, all right. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/637 "2020-01-06T01:26:36Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > It looked like a billy club flying out of his forearm sleeve after he cocked to punch the vehicle. ymmv No it doesn’t look like that. Look at about 1:20 on the higher quality video [here](https://krdo.com/news/2019/11/27/viral-video-of-pueblo-fight-warps-into-right-wing-propaganda/). It is unquestionably an umbrella that falls out from where it is tucked between his back and his backpack. It’s also pretty clear from that video that, “Likely damaging the vehicle,” is pure fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/638 "2020-01-06T03:34:19Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > No it doesn’t look like that. > > Look at about 1:20 on the higher quality video [here](https://krdo.com/news/2019/11/27/viral-video-of-pueblo-fight-warps-into-right-wing-propaganda/). It is unquestionably an umbrella that falls out from where it is tucked between his back and his backpack. > > It’s also pretty clear from that video that, “Likely damaging the vehicle,” is pure fantasy. You can even tell it’s a blue-and-white umbrella. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/639 "2020-01-06T03:37:42Z")
> [@margin](#): > > You can even tell it’s a blue-and-white umbrella. _Blue and white?!!!_ Why has no one mentioned such a critical detail? That changes _everything!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/640 "2020-01-06T05:02:15Z")
> [@margin](#): > > You can even tell it’s a blue-and-white umbrella. > [@running\_coach](#): > > _Blue and white?!!!_ Why has no one mentioned such a critical detail? > That changes _everything!!!_ Damn straight, it does! A real 'Murkan wouldn’t have anything other than a red, white, **and blue** umbreall, dammit! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927.md?page=33)