# This has to stop: extreme actions at political gathering **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927 "2019-11-24T19:15:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/61 "2019-11-25T14:57:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m not arguing about the legal justification at all. People here love to claim that they have a reality-based worldview. Here’s the reality: if you deliberately act like an ass, blocking traffic or doing other stupid shit to annoy people, some of those people, in reality, will beat your ass for it. In this age of cameras everywhere, the chances are high that your ass-beating will be caught on camera and your poor decision-making skills will be the basis of much mockery on the internet. Sure. And it’s a reality-based worldview that there will be people on the Internet who are assholish enough to cheer on the people who are handing out the beatings, rather than saying, “yeah, Guy 1 was acting like an ass, but that nowhere near justifies Guy 2 ramming his car into Guy 1.” That this is reality doesn’t mean they’re right or good. We can still make moral judgments while acknowledging reality as it is. In fact, the people at RedState cheering Guy 2 on (which, given the presentation of the video on their site, includes the people running the site) are horrible, amoral people. Don’t you be one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/62 "2019-11-25T15:07:42Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Man, apparently al-Qaeda didn’t need to fly planes into skyscrapers to terrorize us, all they needed to do was come over here and block traffic. If only they’d known! 😃 I’ve been saying this for years. If some organization flipped a semi on the Wilson Bridge every morning, it would be far more effective than some bombs some place. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/63 "2019-11-25T15:09:21Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > An Antifa guy tried blocking someone’s car, smacks the car with a bat or pipe. It did not end well for him. > > [Protester Tries to Block a Car and Assault Someone, It Doesn't Go Well (Seriously) [UPDATED] – RedState](https://www.redstate.com/bonchie/2019/11/23/antifa-member-tries-block-car-assault-someone-doesnt-go-well-seriously/) > > Can’t we discuss civilly? Protest civilly? Agree to disagree, then vote accordingly? I’d strongly consider having a critical look at your cite. It’s not just an article from a webstie called “RedStates” - but it cites a tweet from a guy called BasedPoland. “Based” is a term strongly correlated with hard alt-right idiots who look up to [that guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Chapman). When a skinhead tells you “antifas are the bad people”, you should probably not listen. You should also probably not listen to anything else they have to say, although their opinions on ice cream \*might \*be valid. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/64 "2019-11-25T15:10:08Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > When a skinhead tells you “antifas are the bad people”, you should probably not listen. You should also probably not listen to anything else they have to say, although their opinions on ice cream \*might \*be valid. No way. They only like plain vanilla. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/65 "2019-11-25T15:19:09Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Man, apparently al-Qaeda didn’t need to fly planes into skyscrapers to terrorize us, all they needed to do was come over here and block traffic. If only they’d known! 😃 The definition of terrorism includes “intimidation especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims” so explain how it’s not terrorism. It’s easy to say it’s just demonstrating or whatever but it impedes firetrucks, police, ambulances, and other first responders from doing their job. Now I don’t think this video can be construed as some sort of political demonstration without more context, it appears to just be a lone idiot. It also appears that at the beginning of the video the driver was out of the car in some kind of confrontation with said idiot and then get back in his vehicle before the rest unfolds. This obviously doesn’t appear to be some organized demonstration barring more details. Do I think it’s ok to run people over? No but I have to admit it’s funny to watch when they get a “helpful” nudge from the vehicle. Both should face charges, but I don’t have any sympathy for the guy who got his ass beat, I have some for the driver. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/66 "2019-11-25T15:23:41Z")
Question for **HD and Magiver** and **pool** : Would you Give-A-Fuck, if instead of an Antifa face cover, the protester was wearing a MAGA hat? What if the MAGA hat guy would get a beat down. Still think it was justified response by the driver of the vehicle? Would you be as angry and feel justified in advancing on the MAGA protester with your car because he was impeding your right of way on a public road? ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/67 "2019-11-25T15:37:11Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Question for **HD and Magiver** and **pool** : > > Would you Give-A-Fuck, if instead of an Antifa face cover, the protester was wearing a MAGA hat? > > What if the MAGA hat guy would get a beat down. Still think it was justified response by the driver of the vehicle? > > Would you be as angry and feel justified in advancing on the MAGA protester with your car because he was impeding your right of way on a public road? Pushing the guy with the car can’t be justified, although it is funny to watch, it’s inherently dangerous and out of proportion, still don’t feel bad for the guy though. One could argue that the beatdown was more justified however because the owner was preventing a crime against his property. At that point it appears the guy is to the side of the car and out of danger and continues to escalate the situation. I would not run someone over for blocking my car, if in a different situation let’s say I saw someone vandalizing my car with a stick, I feel I would be within my rights to stop them with violence to a certain extent. If it was some guy in a MAGA hat I would laugh just as hard and also feel no sympathy for them. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/68 "2019-11-25T15:41:39Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > An Antifa guy tried blocking someone’s car, smacks the car with a bat or pipe. It did not end well for him. > > [Protester Tries to Block a Car and Assault Someone, It Doesn't Go Well (Seriously) [UPDATED] – RedState](https://www.redstate.com/bonchie/2019/11/23/antifa-member-tries-block-car-assault-someone-doesnt-go-well-seriously/) > > Can’t we discuss civilly? Protest civilly? Agree to disagree, then vote accordingly? Redstate? “Based Poland”? False equivalency between a guy driving a truck into protesters and a guy…with a stick? How much does the truck weigh? How fast can it go? Truck vs.stick is the _perfect_ example of rightwing false equivalency, unless it’s that dude with a gun who murdered a kid with a stereo. That’s called escalation, and it’s grotesque. I’m sure if it was a little old lady in a pussycat hat with a cane, the rightwing would turn her into a hairy-legged avenging harpy with a bat by news time. And whining about antifa in this situation is more false equivalency. The Reichwing has actual Nazis wearing actual swastikas and actual Iron Crosses and MAGA hats matching in the streets, being defended by the president, and running for office under the GOP banner. Steven Miller has been exposed as an actual white supremacist. And Repubs? They keep trying to compare fascists and…anti-fascists, when they’re not trying to say that the Democratic Peoples’ Republic of North Korea is really a Republic. Oh, wait. /slight exasperated sarcasm with _this_ crap again. > **[Stick Wielding Alt-Right Activist Gets Probation for Wielding Stick](https://www.newsweek.com/alt-right-activist-known-online-based-stickman-gets-probation-assaulting-protesters-leaded-1461463)** > > Alt-right activist Kyle "Based Stickman" Chapman, who is known for carrying a stick and allegedly hitting political opponents, was given a five year felony probation term by a California judge on Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/69 "2019-11-25T15:42:30Z")
I’ll also add that this appeared to be a lone guy and the driver could have put it in reverse and taken a different route, I assume. If it was a situation where you were surrounded by people on all sides, you basically have no options. If I was in that situation and let’s say they were hitting my car, is it ok to indiscriminately run over a mass of people, no I don’t believe so. Does it become ok at a certain point? What if they start breaking my windows and attempt to pull me from the car or something? What if my kids are in the car, I don’t know the intentions of those people, is it ok to start running people over then, if only to get out of the immediate area? It’s probably a case by case basis but I think it’s human nature to panic if a swarm of angry people with uncertain intentions are surrounding you, a lot of people may not be dead, cold rational in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/70 "2019-11-25T15:44:26Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > “Based” is a term strongly correlated with hard alt-right idiots who look up to [that guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Chapman). Sorry, wrong link, the right guy is the “disambiguation” link on top of mine. But it’s pretty funny that there’d be _two_ prominent hard right idiots with the exact same name. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/71 "2019-11-25T15:44:42Z")
> [@pool](#): > > The definition of terrorism includes “intimidation especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims” so explain how it’s not terrorism. Because _no one’s terrorized_, that’s how. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/72 "2019-11-25T15:44:43Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No way. They only like plain vanilla. I’ll have you know, I make ice cream, and plain home made vanilla is _sublime_, dammit. With _real_ vanilla. What it needs is caffeine. Seriously, home made ice cream? DO IT. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/73 "2019-11-25T15:45:53Z")
As an aside, there’s always been for me a little niggling bother whenever calls for civility come up. I could never really nail it down, but fortunately John Scalzi [answered](https://whatever.scalzi.com/2019/11/20/reader-request-week-2019-5-civility/)that question in one of his Reader Request Questions for this year much better than I ever could. From the top of that post: > [@One of John Scalzi's Readers](#): > > Civility: A genuine plea for common understanding, or just another tool to oppress? > [@John Scalzi](#): > > I mean, why not both? > > Which is to say that one can genuinely wish for “civility” — a sort of courtly and dignified mode of discourse — without understanding all the ways that “civility” generally favors the more powerful parties in said discourse and/or can be used to mask or minimize within the discourse wholly awful ideas, events and opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/74 "2019-11-25T15:46:44Z")
> [@margin](#): > > I’ll have you know, I make ice cream, and plain home made vanilla is _sublime_, dammit. With _real_ vanilla. > > What it needs is caffeine. Seriously, home made ice cream? DO IT. Hmmmm…caffeinated ice cream? I’ll take some! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/75 "2019-11-25T15:47:10Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I’ll also add that this appeared to be a lone guy and the driver could have put it in reverse and taken a different route, I assume. > > If it was a situation where you were surrounded by people on all sides, you basically have no options. If I was in that situation and let’s say they were hitting my car, is it ok to indiscriminately run over a mass of people, no I don’t believe so. Does it become ok at a certain point? What if they start breaking my windows and attempt to pull me from the car or something? What if my kids are in the car, I don’t know the intentions of those people, is it ok to start running people over then, if only to get out of the immediate area? It’s probably a case by case basis but I think it’s human nature to panic if a swarm of angry people with uncertain intentions are surrounding you, a lot of people may not be dead, cold rational in that situation. What if the car was on fire? What if they were holding your mom hostage? What if they were all zombies? You want to blow this out of proportion to justify various acts of violence, be my guest. It’s fun to fantasize. Have at it. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/76 "2019-11-25T15:50:54Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I’ll also add that this appeared to be a lone guy and the driver could have put it in reverse and taken a different route, I assume. > > If it was a situation where you were surrounded by people on all sides, you basically have no options. If I was in that situation and let’s say they were hitting my car, is it ok to indiscriminately run over a mass of people, no I don’t believe so. Does it become ok at a certain point? What if they start breaking my windows and attempt to pull me from the car or something? What if my kids are in the car, I don’t know the intentions of those people, is it ok to start running people over then, if only to get out of the immediate area? It’s probably a case by case basis but I think it’s human nature to panic if a swarm of angry people with uncertain intentions are surrounding you, a lot of people may not be dead, cold rational in that situation. But what if Hitler was covered in glue and setting your kid on fire ? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/77 "2019-11-25T15:51:35Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I’ll also add that this appeared to be a lone guy and the driver could have put it in reverse and taken a different route, I assume. > > If it was a situation where you were surrounded by people on all sides, you basically have no options. If I was in that situation and let’s say they were hitting my car, is it ok to indiscriminately run over a mass of people, no I don’t believe so. Does it become ok at a certain point? What if they start breaking my windows and attempt to pull me from the car or something? What if my kids are in the car, I don’t know the intentions of those people, is it ok to start running people over then, if only to get out of the immediate area? It’s probably a case by case basis but I think it’s human nature to panic if a swarm of angry people with uncertain intentions are surrounding you, a lot of people may not be dead, cold rational in that situation. Yes, in a totally different situation than the one faced by the driver of the car in the video, such as if the car was surrounded, the driver’s kids were in the back seat, and the people surrounding the car were smashing the windows and breaking in - sure, the driver would be justified in putting the car in motion. And if someone knocks on my door to sell me aluminum siding and I respond by shooting him, saying “what if a hundred people surrounded my house and they were smashing the windows to get in, while my innocent babies were asleep upstairs?” isn’t a defense. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/78 "2019-11-25T15:52:44Z")
Freedom to hit trucks and impede lawful progress is not freedom from being consequenced. Let’s hope that the masked fool learned a valuable lesson. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/79 "2019-11-25T15:54:17Z")
> [@margin](#): > > I’ll have you know, I make ice cream, and plain home made vanilla is _sublime_, dammit. With _real_ vanilla. > > What it needs is caffeine. Seriously, home made ice cream? DO IT. You could be the new Zuckerberg with that idea. Make a billion and then be pilloried for making an addictive product that destroys society. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927/80 "2019-11-25T15:55:09Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Yes, in a totally different situation than the one faced by the driver of the car in the video, such as if the car was surrounded, the driver’s kids were in the back seat, and the people surrounding the car were smashing the windows and breaking in - sure, the driver would be justified in putting the car in motion. > > And if someone knocks on my door to sell me aluminum siding and I respond by shooting him, saying “what if a hundred people surrounded my house and they were smashing the windows to get in, while my innocent babies were asleep upstairs?” isn’t a defense. Well yes I think this thread merits discussion of this one video and also the greater topic of large organized political demonstrations that block traffic and intimidate drivers, which I find to be a form of terrorism, I think we can have both conversations in the same thread, but we could start a new thread if you want. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-has-to-stop-extreme-actions-at-political-gathering/843927.md?page=5)