# This is a black day: Paul Wellstone is dead **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 25, 2002, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868 "2002-10-25T18:15:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/21 "2002-10-25T23:27:20Z")
What a horrible, sad story. My thoughts are certainly with your state and the senator’s surviving family. To lose so many members in one day…it seems…unfathomable. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/22 "2002-10-25T23:31:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* > Are you a fucking moron? This is a thread of mourning, and even people who disagreed with Wellstone respected his integrity and devotion to public duty. At a wake, you say nice things about the deceased and keep the negative stuff **to yourself**! > > The decent thing for you to do is to apologize for being an ass and not knowing how to behave in public. \*\* I’m not apologizing, so get over it. It’s the pit, remember? Again, I’m very saddened by his tragic death. Wish it never happened. But at the same time I cannot deny the fact he had been an avowed enemy of liberty. (O.K., my _opinion_, not “fact.” _Whatever_…). Yea, perhaps I’m being a little brash. Guess I’ll never learn… ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/23 "2002-10-25T23:33:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kyla \* > \*\*“If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.” \*\* Good advice. But if we all abided by that, the pit wouldn’t exist… ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2002, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/24 "2002-10-25T23:46:26Z")
**Crafter\_Man** , you are being a putz. Please stop. ---
**Author:** ![apotheosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@apotheosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apotheosis)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/25 "2002-10-26T00:05:13Z")
Amazing. **Crafter\_Man** , it would’ve been so _simple_ to leave your opinion of his politics out of this entirely, and simply offered condolences to his family. Would that really have been so difficult? Are you saying that to pay respects to a dead man _without_ taking a swipe at him would somehow compromise your “ethics,” such as they are? Do you _really_ fail to comprehend the sheer insensitivity of your comment? ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/26 "2002-10-26T00:43:14Z")
**Crafter\_Man** , it’s bad enough to be a poor winner. It’s far worse to think of Senator Wellstone’s death as “winning” for your kind. Several others have put you in your place nicely. Now go crawl back under your rock. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/27 "2002-10-26T00:50:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > \*\*Good advice. But if we all abided by that, the pit wouldn’t exist… \*\* Well no. Even folks who post to the pit know that there is a **time** and place for political opinionating. One hopes that you can realize that this is **not** such a time. ---
**Author:** ![Narile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Narile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Narile)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/28 "2002-10-26T00:50:26Z")
**Crafter\_Man** as a libertarian, I did not agree with Mr. Wellstones beliefs. That said, there are these things called **tact** and **respect**. To behave as you do shows you have little regard for either. As I earlier said, I disagree with Mr. Wellstones beliefs, but I have nothing but respect for the fact he stood by them. That takes integrity and self respect, and in this day and age, that is far to rare a resource. I grieve that we lost someone of that caliber. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/29 "2002-10-26T01:13:37Z")
I have no idea why **Diogenes the Cynic** posted this in the pit. 😕 That being said, I sympathize with his family and people close to him. I do not like to see anyone die, though we all must. As John Donne, said, ‘No man is an iisland; any man’s death diminishes me.’ RIP. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/30 "2002-10-26T01:14:52Z")
A) As a Republican, please allow me to disassociate myself from Crafter\_Man’s abhorrant behavior. One of my most vivid memories is the loathing I felt while in college at a few cretins who cheered when it was announced that Reagan was shot. This sort of behavior is somehow even less attractive when coming from someone nominally on my side of the aisle. B) While I disagreed with Senator Wellstone on nearly every issue, I respected the hell out of the fact that he stood by them, that he had the courage of his convictions (it took guts and honor to be the sole (or one of the two lone) votes against the recent war proposal. I thought his vote was wrong but I admired his courage in making it. There are far too few people like that in politics today. Fenris (On preview, what **Narile** said. ) ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/31 "2002-10-26T01:38:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Narile \* > \*\ ***Crafter\_Man** as a libertarian, I did not agree with Mr. Wellstones beliefs. \*\* As a libertarian myself, I think the greatest memory of Senator Wellstone will be standing up as the lone vote _against_ the PATRIOT Act. We had a note up on the ACLU corkboard at the MU Law School within an hour. The ACLU President was depressed and despondant. He was a strong advocate of civil liberties, and we will feel his absence. Now, I didn’t agree with the man on economic freedom, but that is besides the point. It is a rare man in Washington who will stand behind his ideology, and not play the “let’s see who can be more moderate” game. Anybody who has an ideology, a philosophy he believes in, and will vote unequivacoly in support of that philosophy…well, that’s a rare man, and one I admire. **Crafter\_Man** ’s comments were unwarranted. The “if you can’t say anything nice” maxim should be followed, at the very least, in situations just like this. Another one I follow is “never speak ill of the dead.” Everyone has contributed something to this world in their own way, and I hate it when people declare themselves the arbitrers of the value of a human life (I applied the same standard and said the same thing when **Eve** was celebrating the death of a white supremacist, so I’m being consistent.) ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/32 "2002-10-26T02:01:46Z")
The more I hear the sadder I get. His daughter, a Spanish teacher in the Cities, leaves behind four kids and her husband. Ya know what I’m going to miss most about the man? He wasn’t mean (unlike someone else in this thread). He passionately defended his beliefs but never EVER belittled others for theirs. Never engaged in personal attacks. Just did what he thought was best for our state and country, and damn the political consequences. He was a better man than **Crafter\_Man** will ever be. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/33 "2002-10-26T03:01:07Z")
I’m gratified that this thread has gotten a (mostly) positive reaction. To answer Philo’s question, I posted it in the pit because I didn’t know where else to post it. None of the other boards really seemed “right” so I figured here was as good a place as any. I’d like to remind Crafter that this “freedom-hater” was the only person who voted against the “Patriot’s Act.” Even those people who vehemently disagreed with Wellstone liked him as a person. He spent a lot of time in the community here in St. Paul and could often be seen jogging past the capitol, taking his grandkids to the Science Museum, or having coffee with his wife at Dunn Bros. He would talk to anybody who talked to him, and was extremely light-hearted even with people who disagreed with him. He was that rarest of birds, a politician who wasn’t an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/34 "2002-10-26T03:02:55Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by_ **RexDart** : the greatest memory of Senator Wellstone will be standing up as the lone vote against the PATRIOT Act. Not to speak ill of the dead, but [that vote was cast](http://www.senate.gov/legislative/vote1071/vote_00313.html) by the senator from Wisconsin, Russ Feingold. Wellstone voted YEA. ---
**Author:** ![Monalisa9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@Monalisa9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monalisa9)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/35 "2002-10-26T03:12:28Z")
I don’t think it is going out on a limb to point out what seemed to me a suspicious coincidence. I certainly meant no harm…quite the contrary. The thing, is, that even if it were true, we will never really know for sure. I would also like to point out that it is not necessary to call someone an idiot in order to indicate that you disagree with him/her. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/36 "2002-10-26T03:20:27Z")
Don’t go there, **monalisa9**. The weather up at Eveleth this morning was foggy with icy rain. Way too early to speculate, obviously, but it won’t surprise me to find weather to be the cause. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/37 "2002-10-26T03:21:03Z")
A man of deep convictions, most of them wrong, but sincerely held. But **Monalisa9** , let’s not start with the Clinton death list stuff again every time a politician dies. The FBI is investigating the crash. If there is anything suspicious, we will know. There won’t be. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/38 "2002-10-26T03:39:13Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Shodan_\*\* > A man of deep convictions, most of them wrong, but sincerely held. \*\* That’s your opinion, a lot of people thought his convictions were right. Whether they are right or wrong, is a matter of perspective. Senator Wellstone was passionate about his beliefs, and didn’t shy away from a debate, in fact he welcomed it. From this site:[http://www.wellstone.org/](http://www.wellstone.org/) _ **"Paul Wellstone was one of a kind. He was a man of principle and conviction, in a world that has too little of either. He was dedicated to helping the little guy, in a business dominated by the big guys.** _" ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/39 "2002-10-26T03:40:07Z")
Wellstone had guts. He was actually willing to state an opinion without the obligatory “the American people (subtext: polling) would want, blah.” He was a liberal willing to admit he was a liberal, and not just at a DNC fundraiser. Sure, I disagreed with him about 50% of the time, like most politicians. But, I respected the guy. What a horrible tragedy losing one whole branch of a family in one accident. ---
**Author:** ![Monalisa9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@Monalisa9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monalisa9)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2002, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868/40 "2002-10-26T03:44:20Z")
The weather seems as though it certainly could have been a factor. I don’t wish to assert that because I brought something up to discuss, I necessarily believe it is the case. I just don’t know. But It was something that popped into my head right away, and, well, it wouldn’t be he first time someone was eliminated from a competition at a particularly efficient time. (sigh!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-black-day-paul-wellstone-is-dead/133868.md?page=3)