# "This is a Catholic country". Your foetus is more important than your life. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2012, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966 "2012-11-14T07:49:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/62 "2012-11-15T03:54:08Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Maybe it’s a Yank thing, but my racism meter went off with her name. Of course, this side of the pond, a poor woman who can’t afford to cross the distance from Galway to the UK would often be of Irish descent, and the doctors Indian. > > A woman dies in hospital after days of sepsis, and no one stops it? No injunction, no special dispensation, no, “Get her on a plane to the UK if you have to”? > > ETA: Just read the linked article. She was a dentist? Should have gotten out of there. May not have been able to travel.I would probably define the terms almost the other way around, but yes, these guys need some training in consequentialist bioethics, instead of relying on procedural, not morality, but ass-covering. > > I’d like to sue the hospital away from its management and put its administration in the hands of “heathens” like Ms. Halappanavar. That might teach them. I honestly hope and think there wasn’t a racial component. I was talking to a Nigerian man earlier about it and he wondered whether the docs were Indian, Irish, or something else. But honestly I really hope that isn’t a factor. I really hope. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/63 "2012-11-15T04:20:11Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yes. Either patting themselves on the back for their own righteousness, or gloating over the death of a “slut”, a “Daughter of Eve”; the source of all the evil in the world. Or both. And she was a brown person who followed a “false religion” to boot. Your are just making this shit up, for whatever reason that makes you feel better about your past. This woman died partly/mostly because the “abortion laws” in Ireland are hideously not fit for purpose, and that’s a legitimate beef for sensible Irish people to get sorted. They will get it sorted, well, the younger ones will force it at some point. So anyway, **Der Trihs** , what the hell happened to you? How come you are so bitter? I agree religion is all kinds of shite, but you use such terrible language. There’s a load of misogyny , for a start? ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/64 "2012-11-15T09:11:08Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > I know this poster isn’t going to be around to finish this argument, but I’ll just point out that this is completely wrong. [Just last week](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/09/ohio-heartbeat-bill_n_2101189.html):So, yeah, anti-choicers do support laws that would kill women like Savita Halappanavar. Fuck, they’d have killed \*\*me \*\*☹ My ectopic pregnancy had a heartbeat a few months ago. > [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Went to the march on the Dail (parliament) earlier. Good turn out at short notice and there are more protests, vigils etc. We need to vote there callous cowardly creatures out. Glad to hear it. Did she have any children already? I know, it’s bad enough she’s dead, but the thought of her dying un-necessarily and leaving existing kids without a mother is playing on my mind ☹ (and shut the fuck up \*\*Kinthalis \*\*. I bet in real life if you’d been there, you’d have been too busy holding your wife’s hand and listening to the doctors blithely assuring you that they’d be able to save your wife once the fetus had passed.) ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/65 "2012-11-15T09:16:53Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > …Anyway, **Der Trihs** , what the hell happened to you? How come you are so bitter? I agree religion is all kinds of shite, but you use such terrible language. There’s a load of misogyny , for a start? **Der Trihs** has a nasty misogynistic strain that comes out now & then… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/66 "2012-11-15T10:15:13Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > There’s a load of misogyny , for a start? :dubious: Where? ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/67 "2012-11-15T10:15:35Z")
This is sad beyond belief. This Irish Government should resign. With the availability of safe abortions over the channel in the UK, the Irish parliament evidently thought that they could suck up to the religious right and avoid solving the issue on their home turf as they could take comfort that the UK would provide solutions for Irish citizens needing such abortions. I really really don’t have the words to express my total disgust. Cowards and hypocrites. Nor words to explain my sympathy to the family involved. **An Gadai** PM me an address please to where I can donate some money to either a fund for the family to gain some redress or a fund to fight laws and lawmakers in my mother’s country that promote the anti abortionist agenda that caused this young woman’s painful death. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/68 "2012-11-15T10:35:40Z")
Please note that in my post above, I did not state, nor do I believe, the idiots who cause such deaths as the topic of this thread are gloating over it. I just sometimes feel that their actions (or, in this case, their lack of action) show that they really don’t take into consideration a woman’s life as they purportedly state they do. ---
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/69 "2012-11-15T12:51:04Z")
Indian government is getting involved [now](http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_india-waiting-for-irish-probe-into-death-of-indian-woman_1764912). ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/70 "2012-11-15T13:51:43Z")
> [@Indian](#): > > Indian government is getting involved [now](http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_india-waiting-for-irish-probe-into-death-of-indian-woman_1764912). Good. If the Irish won’t stick up for women then someone has to. The people who made the disgusting decision to let this poor woman die should be prosecuted for manslaughter. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/71 "2012-11-15T14:30:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > :dubious: Where? Ok, maybe it’s just general misanthropy. I pretty much agree with your position re religion, but you use such incendiary language a lot of the time that you are actively harming your cause. Anyway, this is a derail from the point of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/72 "2012-11-15T15:04:14Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > A 31-year-old woman, Savita Praveen Halappanavar, has died in an Irish hospital after being denied an abortion to save her life. [Link](http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1114/1224326575203.html) > > She was suffering a slow miscarriage and getting sicker and sicker, but doctors refused to abort the pregnancy, telling her “This is a Catholic country”. Her cervix was open for several days. She was in agonising pain. Eventually she contracted septicemia and died. And people wonder how I can say that religion is the single most harmful thing that humanity has ever dreamed up to inflict on itself. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/73 "2012-11-15T15:56:37Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > So if that was your wife you’d just… let it her die in agony? I’d do whatever, WHATEVER it took to make sure somebody helped her. > > If that means I take a few doctors hostage, so be it. I’d deal with the consequences later. > > My wife’s life \>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\> jail time. > > My wife’s life \>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\> Than some asshole religiously retarded doctors. I was fairly knowledgeable for a father. We took a very comprehensive Lamaze course and during our first child’s birth I was able, for example, to inform the doctor and nurse that my wife had gone into transition. Seeing what the father must have seen, I’d of done some shouting and when that didn’t work would have arranged to get my wife away from the Irish butchers and into a more civilized country. Probably London. But these folks apparently were from India so getting to London or Paris might have been impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/74 "2012-11-15T16:00:23Z")
Why isn’t anyone taking exception to Der Trihs’ statements? I swear liberals always get a pass around here. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/75 "2012-11-15T17:18:08Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Why isn’t anyone taking exception to Der Trihs’ statements? I swear liberals always get a pass around here. Instead making this post, you could have challenged them yourself. Why didn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/76 "2012-11-15T17:21:35Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > **Der Trihs** has a nasty misogynistic strain that comes out now & then… Citation Needed. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/77 "2012-11-15T17:25:40Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Seeing what the father must have seen, I’d of done some shouting and when that didn’t work would have arranged to get my wife away from the Irish butchers and into a more civilized country. I am reminded of the origin of the term [“beyond the pale”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_the_Pale). ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/78 "2012-11-15T17:25:55Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > But these folks apparently were from India so getting to London or Paris might have been impossible. The UK and Ireland have an agreement called the Common Travel Area, which means there are no border controls between the two countries. Not that, I imagine, the poor woman would have been in a fit state to run out of the hospital and jump on a plane. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/79 "2012-11-15T17:30:34Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Maybe it’s a Yank thing, but my racism meter went off with her name. She was an Indian national, and her government has (quite properly) taken an interest, just as any civilized government would take an interest in the case of one of its people killed by locals following barbaric doctrines allegedly handed down from their god(s). ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/80 "2012-11-15T17:35:16Z")
> [@Indian](#): > > Indian government is getting involved [now](http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_india-waiting-for-irish-probe-into-death-of-indian-woman_1764912). > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Good. If the Irish won’t stick up for women then someone has to. \ I thought you were being sarcastic at first. What, the Indian government is only okay with killing women when they are still fetuses? The Indian government should take no stance on this except, “We are terribly ashamed that we let women abort female fetuses in our country, and we have no right to an opinion on any other countries’ abortion laws.” (Not to attack you, **Lavender** , but rather the hypocritical Indian government.) > [@Ludovic](#): > > Why isn’t anyone taking exception to Der Trihs’ statements? I swear liberals always get a pass around here. Did you see the posts where people were taking exception to **Der Trihs**? On the other hand, maybe we don’t take him to task as much as we should because we know him, not because he’s a liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/81 "2012-11-15T17:37:06Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > And people wonder how I can say that religion is the single most harmful thing that humanity has ever dreamed up to inflict on itself. High five! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966.md?page=5)