# "This is a Catholic country". Your foetus is more important than your life. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2012, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966 "2012-11-14T07:49:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/82 "2012-11-15T17:38:30Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Did you see the posts where people were taking exception to **Der Trihs**? > > On the other hand, maybe we don’t take him to task as much as we should because we know him, not because he’s a liberal. My first reaction on seeing his posts to this thread was, “Dude, you need help.” For the most part, though, I tend to roll my eyes when I see him going off on religion; very much a “there he goes again” reaction. And I’m an atheist/agnostic myself. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/83 "2012-11-15T18:03:26Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Instead making this post, you could have challenged them yourself. Why didn’t you? Readjust the Sarcast-a-tron. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/84 "2012-11-15T18:05:13Z")
[Here](http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/1115/1224326605995.html)’s a thoughtful editorial in the Irish Times. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/85 "2012-11-15T18:06:56Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > And people wonder how I can say that religion is the single most harmful thing that humanity has ever dreamed up to inflict on itself. No, all I wonder is how it took you until page 2 of this thread to flounce in and get your pony to do its one trick. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/86 "2012-11-15T18:10:25Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > No, all I wonder is how it took you until page 2 of this thread to flounce in and get your pony to do its one trick. Hey, his pony also does that trick where it’s horribly misinformed about basic facts and reality and is angry about nonsense conspiracy theories. That’s _two tricks_, bucko! ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/87 "2012-11-15T18:12:42Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You know, I quite often find myself believing that if the bishop or the other folks in charge of creating these situations could tell in advance that the embryo or fetus is female, abortion wouldn’t be out of the question. Or if they were gay. Or trans. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/88 "2012-11-15T18:14:18Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Or if they were gay. Or trans. Bishop: "Does that sonogram look a bit \*fabulous \*to you? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/89 "2012-11-15T19:05:04Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > [Here](http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/1115/1224326605995.html)’s a thoughtful editorial in the Irish Times. From the editorial: > [@](#): > > It is not possible to say categorically that earlier medical intervention to end Savita Halappanavar’s pregnancy by “expediting delivery” of her miscarrying foetus would definitely have saved her life. No, but we can say categorically that no amount of medical intervention would have saved the life of the foetus. This was not a choice between the life of the mother and the life of the child. The child was doomed, even if its heart was still beating. This was, categorically, risking the life of a woman for sentimental bullshit about a hopeless baby. And we can say, categorically, that it was barbaric that the woman was not allowed to make the choice for herself. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/90 "2012-11-15T19:49:07Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I thought you were being sarcastic at first. What, the Indian government is only okay with killing women when they are still fetuses? The Indian government should take no stance on this except, “We are terribly ashamed that we let women abort female fetuses in our country, and we have no right to an opinion on any other countries’ abortion laws.” They’re trying to fix it and move forward. When my brother’s wife got pregnant, they didn’t know the gender of the baby - reputable doctors will not tell the gender of a baby anymore because of this. I believe it’s actually against the law in some states. I’m not saying that India doesn’t have some shit to answer for. But they are trying to change things, not just sitting there and proclaiming it’s a “Catholic” country. I don’t think it’s a fair comparison, and I absolutely think they have a right to speak up. ---
**Author:** ![Hrududu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Hrududu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hrududu)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/91 "2012-11-15T21:13:22Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Maybe it’s a Yank thing, but my racism meter went off with her name. I think that says more about you to be honest. If it was an Irish woman the exact same thing would have happened. It seems to me that the heartbeat of a foetus that couldn’t survive trumped the heartbeat of a living breathing woman. The worst thing is I can’t see anything changing. The government will try to weather this storm and then go back to business as usual. Its twenty years since the X case and still no legislation. Its outrageous. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/92 "2012-11-15T21:38:41Z")
It’s not clear why they wouldn’t do an emergency c-section to try to save both mother and baby – even knowing the baby wouldn’t make it?? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/93 "2012-11-15T21:40:52Z")
Earlier this year I started a thread about a similar case in the Dominican Rep. Similar outcome. A 16 year pregnant girl (first trimester) was diagnosed with leukemia. Since a pregnancy was stressing her body more than it would if she were not pregnant the proper way to go about was perform an abortion and give her immediate treatment. Instead, doctors feared that the almost certain abortion that would occur when she was given treatment would break the law, they delayed treatment until they heard from practically every authority, including the RCC, that it was OK to administer treatment (no abortion). By then she was weakened by the disease and the pregnancy. She died. While it’s impossible to say if she had survived had all medical standards been followed, the fact is that her chances were greatly diminished by her doctors twiddling their thumbs in the meantime. At the time I commented that it was her fault for being born poor. She would have been sent out of the country stat had her family had the resources for it. Instead she languished and died to prove a point about some ancient, archaic bullcrap. Way to go RCC! ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/94 "2012-11-15T21:49:51Z")
> [@Hrududu](#): > > I think that says more about you to be honest. If it was an Irish woman the exact same thing would have happened. That’s true. However, I also wondered about racism and it’s because of that line “this is a Catholic country”. Now I can’t hear the tone of voice and nor do I know the exact context, but what my imagination does is add “you amoral heathen” at the end. Needless to say my imagination is not proof of anything, but I lived in Ireland (Co.Clare) for 8 years and I wouldn’t rule it out either. Regardless, it is already bad enough even without the racism. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/95 "2012-11-15T21:51:03Z")
> [@Hrududu](#): > > I think that says more about you to be honest. If it was an Irish woman the exact same thing would have happened. It seems to me that the heartbeat of a foetus that couldn’t survive trumped the heartbeat of a living breathing woman. The worst thing is I can’t see anything changing. The government will try to weather this storm and then go back to business as usual. Its twenty years since the X case and still no legislation. Its outrageous. Not racist but I feel the bigotry. Do you think they would have said “This is a Catholic Country” to a Catholic? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/96 "2012-11-15T22:00:32Z")
One common quote of the “pro-life” movement is “Abortion is never medically necessary to save a mother’s life.” Really? ---
**Author:** ![Hrududu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Hrududu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hrududu)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/97 "2012-11-15T22:05:19Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Not racist but I feel the bigotry. Do you think they would have said “This is a Catholic Country” to a Catholic? When I first heard the “This is a Catholic Country” I automatically assumed the same as PookahMacPhellimey: > [@](#): > > Now I can’t hear the tone of voice and nor do I know the exact context, but what my imagination does is add “you amoral heathen” at the end. Someone pointed out that it might have been said in more of an apologetic ‘my hands are tied’ way. But who knows? I do think it would have also been said to a white Irish athiest too though. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/98 "2012-11-15T22:13:08Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > And people wonder how I can say that religion is the single most harmful thing that humanity has ever dreamed up to inflict on itself. This is one of those instances that would seem to support your claim in a way that is hard to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/99 "2012-11-15T22:19:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Religion. If Ireland wasn’t a nation dominated by religiously motivated woman haters, then they wouldn’t have such restrictions on abortion in the first place. This sort of thing is part of the point of such laws; odds are good the doctors actively enjoyed what happened to her, and I’m certain that the people who wrote & supported the laws had smiles on their faces when they got the news. > [@Clothahump](#): > > And people wonder how I can say that religion is the single most harmful thing that humanity has ever dreamed up to inflict on itself. Some days I wonder if **Der** and **Cloth** aren’t the same person having us on with polar opposite political stances but is genuine about his hate of religion and love of nerdy books and games. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/100 "2012-11-15T22:26:35Z")
No one should have to die like that, no matter what excuse is used. In this case I have to side with Clothahump. It was avoidable, it was unnecessary, it was cruel and it was STUPID. The fact is, someone died horribly because of religious theocratic bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966/101 "2012-11-15T22:52:04Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > They’re trying to fix it and move forward. When my brother’s wife got pregnant, they didn’t know the gender of the baby - reputable doctors will not tell the gender of a baby anymore because of this. I believe it’s actually against the law in some states. > > I’m not saying that India doesn’t have some shit to answer for. But they are trying to change things, not just sitting there and proclaiming it’s a “Catholic” country. I don’t think it’s a fair comparison, and I absolutely think they have a right to speak up. Yeah, true enough. The idea that India has some kind of moral leg to stand on on this issue was really bothering me; I’m not a huge fan of abortion (although still pro-choice), but female infanticide makes me quite angry. I guess the way it looks to me is India saying, “Allowing a woman to die because of your religion is wrong. But pay no attention to us killing female fetuses because we don’t think women are as good as men!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-a-catholic-country-your-foetus-is-more-important-than-your-life/640966.md?page=6)