# This is Boehner's shutdown **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 3, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261 "2013-10-03T12:06:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/181 "2013-10-08T13:43:07Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Interesting possibility here. Boehner plays this out and eventually falls on the sword. The TP pulls their support of him as Speaker. What then? Then we play out _The Passion of the Speaker._ ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/182 "2013-10-08T13:54:07Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Not too difficult to imagine a TP faction only agreeing to vote for one of them and the less extreme to moderate portion of the party refusing to vote for one of them, neither of which has enough votes for that absolute majority. There are always factions in both parties and someone gets the most votes in conference and gets supported by the party when the House votes. I think you’re assuming much more of a sharp delineation in the current Republican party than actually exists. If Boehner goes down it would be because as a practical matter, when hot-button issues are in such sharp focus it’s hard to avoid alienating one or another faction. But that doesn’t mean that the next speaker couldn’t be someone ideologically very similar to Boehner but who kept his mouth shut tighter or was further removed from the action. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/183 "2013-10-08T15:10:01Z")
Good news, our long national nightmare is over: the House GOP is proposing to [create a supercommittee](http://blogs.rollcall.com/218/gop-proposes-bipartisan-committee-to-resolve-impasse/)! > [@](#): > > House Republicans will bring to the floor a bill to create a bipartisan, bicameral committee to address the current fiscal impasse that has shut down much of the government and threatens a debt default. > > A GOP leadership aide said the committee wouldn’t just handle the continuing resolution needed to fund the government. It would have broader jurisdiction similar to the 2011 Joint Committee on Deficit Reduction, also known as the supercommittee, and would cover the debt limit and other fiscal issues. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/184 "2013-10-08T15:13:17Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Good news, our long national nightmare is over: the House GOP is proposing to [create a supercommittee](http://blogs.rollcall.com/218/gop-proposes-bipartisan-committee-to-resolve-impasse/)! Great idea! That last one worked so well. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/185 "2013-10-08T15:15:36Z")
Worked great if you’re in the “Fuck it, kill it all” anti-government faction of the GOP. You know, the same people who orchestrated and cheer on the current shutdown this supercommittee is supposed to fix. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/186 "2013-10-08T15:17:50Z")
Great! So now they can extort the nation under the guise of bipartisanship. Or rather, continue their failed leadership and attempt to share the blame with Democrats and take the heat off Boehner. Fail. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/187 "2013-10-08T15:41:07Z")
It may well be Boehner’s shutdown but the reality is and always has been that if the country sinks into chaos the buck stops at the White House. Unfair? Maybe, but it’s the man at the top that needs to find a way out of this. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/188 "2013-10-08T16:15:43Z")
Okay, but the next supercommittee goes in the opposite direction. If Congress doesn’t approve its plan, then we raise taxes across the board and go to war with two foreign countries. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/189 "2013-10-08T16:45:12Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What you said before is that Boehner “flat out lied”. When confronted with evidence suggesting otherwise you, without skipping a beat, switched to “Boehner’s playing games”, claiming that that’s “the point”. > > I think _you’re_ playing games. No. Boehner is flat out lying and the CBS estimate does not protect him. He us lying to pretend that it is not his fault because the votes are not there to pass a clean CR. if he was certain the votes are not there and he in fact opposes a clean CR he can have the vote and prove that he and the vast majority of Republicans won’t pass it. Since he won’t allow an up or down vote he is lying. He’s playing a game and lying at the same time. Remember he is seeking Press sympathy with this lie. Poor me, I can’t stop this. I am a victim of thirty mad dogs in my caucus Don’t give him any. He is a liar. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/190 "2013-10-08T16:52:09Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Good news, our long national nightmare is over: the House GOP is proposing to [create a supercommittee](http://blogs.rollcall.com/218/gop-proposes-bipartisan-committee-to-resolve-impasse/)! But [the Dems ain’t having none of that.](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/house-democrats-reject-gop-request-for-supercommittee-to-address-shutdown-and-spending) > [@](#): > > Rep. Xavier Becerra (D-Cali.), chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, said that a supercommittee was unecessary for solving the current fiscal impasse. > > \ > > “Stop letting the Tea Party tail wag the elephant,” he said at the conference. “Get up in the morning and do what you’re paid to do.” ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/191 "2013-10-08T17:13:03Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Journalists don’t have shows. Really? Rachel Maddow Show > **[Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC | Watch Rachel Maddow Live](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show)** > > More about the MSNBC Rachel Maddow Show airing weeknights at 9 PM. Watch Rachel Maddow tonight or online with updated video & episodes at MSNBC. Rachel Maddow hosts MSNBC’s top-rated primetime show, The Rachel Maddow Show. The show features Maddow’s take on the biggest stories of the day, including issues … ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/192 "2013-10-08T17:46:29Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > There are always factions in both parties and someone gets the most votes in conference and gets supported by the party when the House votes. I think you’re assuming much more of a sharp delineation in the current Republican party than actually exists. > > If Boehner goes down it would be because as a practical matter, when hot-button issues are in such sharp focus it’s hard to avoid alienating one or another faction. But that doesn’t mean that the next speaker couldn’t be someone ideologically very similar to Boehner but who kept his mouth shut tighter or was further removed from the action. I am not so sure that this House’s factions are the same as factions in the past. The TP faction has become more explicit in their no compomises desire. Better no GOP than a GOP that is not the one they want. Minimally better a smaller GOP that is more pure and holds onto its position of obstructionism than a larger one that reduces their power over the group. Better a government that does not function than one that accomplishes things that go against their wishes. Those of the GOP who are not TP are realizing that a policy of appeasement is going to work as well for them as it did for Chamberlin. I think you are asuming less delineation in the current Republican party than actually exists. Maybe I am wrong … certainly I would have argued the other way a few weeks ago … we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/193 "2013-10-08T17:46:32Z")
To put it in clear perspective: “This mess was created by the Republicans for one purpose, and they lost. People in my district are calling in for Obamacare – affordable health care – in large numbers. These guys have lost, and they can’t figure out how to admit it… So we sit here until they figure out they fuckin’ lost.” – Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/194 "2013-10-08T18:07:27Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Really? > > Rachel Maddow Show > [Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC | Watch Rachel Maddow Live](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908) > Rachel Maddow hosts MSNBC’s top-rated primetime show, The Rachel Maddow Show. The show features Maddow’s take on the biggest stories of the day, including issues … Sorry, not buying it. Journalism dies when it is put in front of a television camera. The consumers of journalism are the public whose interest is in becoming informed about the events of the world. The consumers of television are the advertisers whose interest is in profiting by getting their advertising messages relayed into numerous homes. These interests are orthogonal to one another. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/195 "2013-10-08T18:13:41Z")
> [@](#): > > The consumers of television are the advertisers whose interest is in profiting by getting their advertising messages relayed into numerous homes. > > These interests are orthogonal to one another. How do you think newspapers and magazines pay the bills? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/196 "2013-10-08T18:37:51Z")
The ugly truth of the print media business, journalism or not, is that the \*readers \*are the product, and the customers are the _advertisers_. They sell access to a readership with a well-known demographic composition to companies desiring to sell their products to that demographic, using advertising as the medium. _That’s_ the core of the business plan. Subscription fees are negligible parts of it, and some publications don’t even bother charging if they judge that it would turn away too many readers, IOW reduce the value of the true product. Printing articles and photos etc. is just a way to keep the readership engaged in the medium, exposed to the advertising. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/197 "2013-10-08T18:44:28Z")
I know, I used to run a newspaper. So are you saying there are no true journalists, even in print, because of this business model? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/198 "2013-10-08T20:09:47Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Sorry, not buying it. Journalism dies when it is put in front of a television camera. The consumers of journalism are the public whose interest is in becoming informed about the events of the world. > > The consumers of television are the advertisers whose interest is in profiting by getting their advertising messages relayed into numerous homes. > > These interests are orthogonal to one another. Not buying what? You said Journalists don’t have shows. Rachal Maddow is a journalist. She has a show. Many do. You are wrong. As long as journalist/hosts of regularly programmed TV shiws present facts according to their profession there is no conflict. There is no problem referring to these programs as shows. If you need to avoid the word ‘show’ when watching a news program - that’s fine. I doubt many have a problem with that word. It does not change or keep journalism from happening. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/199 "2013-10-08T20:16:20Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Those of the GOP who are not TP are realizing that a policy of appeasement is going to work as well for them as it did for Chamberlin. Ted Cruz said something of the kind recently . . . Of course, he assigned the Hitler and Chamberlain roles . . . differently. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/200 "2013-10-08T20:26:52Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I know, I used to run a newspaper. So are you saying there are no true journalists, even in print, because of this business model? Not in Scotland, anyway. :dubious: \*Certainly \*good journalism helps attract readers who want to read good journalism. But even journalists are company employees and sometimes need to remember that. Your point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261.md?page=11)