# This is Boehner's shutdown **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 3, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261 "2013-10-03T12:06:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/101 "2013-10-06T23:06:09Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The supreme court said the ACA was good policy? Hmmm… > > They have the numbers in the House to do precisely what they are doing and it is their constitutional duty to do so. Silly me, I thought their constitutional duty was to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/102 "2013-10-06T23:07:11Z")
> [@](#): > > He has no obligation, legal or otherwise, to represent anyone else, including Skip of SDMB fame. Congress is required to fund government under the constitution. The ACA is law and is already fully funded. There is no justification to not pass a spending bill for the rest of the federal budget. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/103 "2013-10-06T23:08:01Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Will Farnaby, ladies and gentlemen, with another fine post from the Dope’s premier libertarian thinker. Sure, it’s stupid and annoying - but what else has he got? Substantive point. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not what I remember from Mr. 47%. Is this a whoosh or are you proving my point. Democratic apparatchiks sent in a spy to capture Mr. Romney being awkward and rich. > [@](#): > > The fact that more than 1.4 million voted for the House democrats shows that your say so of “there is a large body of Americans who do not want the ACA. **These people sent representatives to the People’s Chamber to stop it**.” was not completely accurate. There is a large body of Americans who do not want the ACA. These people sent reps to Congress to stop it. How are these sentences not true? > [@](#): > > Nope, when a shibboleth like that pops up it is really the one bringing it in the one that has a lack of argument, because it is a reheated silly term coming from right wing sources. [ Pelosi was the driving force behind the ACA. Theres another one for you to either dispute or quit wasting my time. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/104 "2013-10-06T23:09:14Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > This is an illuminating comment! Maybe you could elaborate. It’s a false equivalence. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/105 "2013-10-06T23:09:53Z")
> [@Skip](#): > > Congress is required to fund government under the constitution. Congress is entitled to but not required to fund government. > [@](#): > > the ACA is law and is already fully funded. There is no justification to not pass a spending bill for the rest of the federal budget. They did pass a spending bill. Several of them. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/106 "2013-10-06T23:11:08Z")
> [@Skip](#): > > It’s a false equivalence. Chronos implied that debates are settled by passing of legislation. Good thing that wasn’t the case with the Fugitive Slave Act. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/107 "2013-10-06T23:14:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Silly me, I thought their constitutional duty was to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States. How is defunding the ACA an abdication of those responsibilities? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/108 "2013-10-06T23:17:32Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > How is defunding the ACA an abdication of those responsibilities? Silly me, I thought that other items are being defunded as we speak the longer this goes. There is also the small item that the ACA is the law, not a bill as many Republicans in congress are calling it to look even more foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/109 "2013-10-06T23:19:38Z")
> [@](#): > > How is defunding the ACA an abdication of those responsibilities? They way to defund the ACA would be to pass a ‘Defund the ACA Bill’. But that bill would have difficulty passing the House and never pass the Senate, so they took the federal budget hostage instead. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/110 "2013-10-06T23:20:19Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Is this a whoosh or are you proving my point. Democratic apparatchiks sent in a spy to capture Mr. Romney being awkward and rich. Nope, not what happened at all. Oh, he was caught being a sack of shit (“awkward and rich”, in your terminology) but your description of the event is totally incorrect; one might even go so far as to use terms that are not permitted in this forum when characterizing your remarks. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/111 "2013-10-06T23:22:16Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Is this a whoosh or are you proving my point. Democratic apparatchiks sent in a spy to capture Mr. Romney being awkward and rich. And? It showed that the opinion I had of Romney was the correct one. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > There is a large body of Americans who do not want the ACA. > > These people sent reps to Congress to stop it. > > How are these sentences not true? Math is hard. More people voted for democrats to keep things like ACA going. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Pelosi was the driving force behind the ACA. Theres another one for you to either dispute or quit wasting my time. Once again the point was simply to show who your sources are, and the point still stands, depending on those sources only distorts the information that a well informed citizen needs to make informed decisions. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/112 "2013-10-06T23:23:35Z")
> [@Skip](#): > > They way to defund the ACA would be to pass a ‘Defund the ACA Bill’. But that bill would have difficulty passing the House and never pass the Senate, so they took the federal budget hostage instead. QFT, yeah, there was also that “small” detail. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/113 "2013-10-06T23:24:23Z")
> [@](#): > > There is a large body of Americans who do not want the ACA. > > These people sent reps to Congress to stop it. There is also a large body of Americans who want universal healthcare. We, and the reps we send to Congress, are not willing to sink the nation’s economy by shutting down the government or defaulting to get our way, thank God. Will, you’re just proving the point I made earlier in this thread about Republicans/conservatives/right-wingers. Holding a gun to the country to get \*your \*way is the only desperate act you guys have anymore. You negotiate the same way as Al Qaeda. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/114 "2013-10-06T23:25:09Z")
Also let’s remember that Cruz and the TP’ers didn’t actually want to defund the ACA, just delay it a year. Which they thought the Dems would blink on. When they didn’t they were caught with their pants down painted in a corner with Boehner hamstrung for fear of losing his speakership, Cruz being [crapped on behind closed doors](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/ted-cruz-blasted-by-angry-gop-colleagues-government-shutdown-97753.html?hp=t1_3) and other Republicans[refusing to be in the same photograph as him](http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2013/10/06/gop-candidate-won-t-pose-with-cruz.html). ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/115 "2013-10-06T23:28:11Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I also stated that these same people sent representatives to the House to stop it. Do you dispute that? They sent people to repeal and replace it. Repeal and replace was the mantra. Since the individual mandate is an old GOP idea, no reasonable person who reads and remembers the health care plans of the likes of Romney and [Gingrich](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/01/newt-gingrich-supported-an-individual-mandate-as-recently-as-may-2009/252233/) could have thought the subtle differences between Democrats and Republicans over minimum coverage requirements were equivalent to the difference between slavery and freedom. I disagree that your claim about the Fugitive Slave Act is idiotic. But it is dangerous. Moderate differences of opinion are being exaggerated to such an extent that half of [Republicans say U.S. headed toward ‘armed revolution’](http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2013/may/2/republicans-say-us-headed-toward-armed-revolution-/). Am I seriously afraid that the new Tea Party will lead to mass death the way the one in 1773 did? No, because the forces of law and order are stronger than they were in the eighteenth century. So it won’t get to where there are set-piece battles. But convincing people that tax issues amount to slavery does have a history of leading to violence, and you shouldn’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/116 "2013-10-07T01:15:41Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > First pretend Democratic politicians are sentient beings with principles. Nice job poisoning the well, right from the get-go. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Suppose the opposite of the current shutdown takes place over Iraq war funding instead of ACA funding. How would this situation be viewed? I submit that it would be seen as a Noble Stand instead of “hostage taking” or “personal animosity to the sitting president” by a vast majority of SDMB participants. I might be willing to say you could conceivably find some support for similar tactics regarding a temporary government shutdown if they were used by Democrats over Iraq War funding. Maybe. Perhaps. It’s within the realm of possibility. However, I think I give my fellow liberals and progressives of the SDMB credit that very few (or none, I would hope) would at all support playing games with the nation’s economy by fooling around with the debt limit. Shutdowns have happened before, we have lived through them, and we all know in this hypothetical the Democrats would cave and re-open the government after a few days. The debt ceiling, though, is dangerous ground. I’m not sure the Tea Party really knows what they have their hands on or what the effects of default are really going to be. (As an aside, too, how many past government shutdowns were EVER instigated by the Democrats holding out for something? Unless Newt was a secret Democrat, it’s nice to try to create a false equivalency, but past history doesn’t help you out here.) > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Chronos implied that debates are settled by passing of legislation. Good thing that wasn’t the case with the Fugitive Slave Act. New GOP talking point bingo! I heard Pat Buchanan bring up the Fugitive Slave Act this morning on McLaughlin! You’re right! It’s exactly the same! The way to get laws repealed is to get enough of your side elected into office to vote it out. Period. When that fails, it does NOT follow that you then hold your breath and refuse to pay for that law until you turn blue. Or the economy collapses, whichever comes first. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/117 "2013-10-07T01:23:45Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Some other thougts on the shutdown: It is not a shutdown, but a small scale reduction in operations. Ah, yes, the Fox News “slimdown.” One thing I give the Tea Party/conservative side of the argument … they get their talking points together and stick to them extremely well. I am a government employee. My job is considered “essential,” so I am still working. But I am not getting paid. Yes, I will get paid for my time once the shutdown is over and government is funded again, but until then … I work for IOUs. Funny thing, the electric company and the grocery store and the bank holding my car loan and my mortgage, none of those people will take IOUs for payment. Not to mention all the employees who are told not to come to work, and faced the prospect of not getting paid for that time at all. Or the businesses who count on visitors to federal lands and parks to bring in their incomes, or even the restaurants and shops who count on the spending of government employees. You tell them to their faces that this is just a “small scale reduction in operation.” This stuff matters. It matters to real people, real Americans. It’s not just “playing games,” as our esteemed Speaker railed about the other day. ---
**Author:** ![Jay4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@Jay4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay4)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/118 "2013-10-07T01:49:09Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > are not willing to sink the nation’s economy by shutting down the government or defaulting to get our way, thank God. to bad they arent smart enough to relize that eventually the takers will out number the makers.and guess what? good bye your shit free healthcare to bad you idiots wanted your freebies though.have fun with a worse america because of it.to bad my way or the highway isnt the best approach at running a country.its time to turn off the obama ass kissing mainstream media and look around you for once,things are only gonna get worse ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/119 "2013-10-07T02:05:49Z")
**Jay4** , rants and insults, belong in The BBQ Pit, not in Great Debates. Do not post rants and insults in this forum again. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/120 "2013-10-07T02:12:51Z")
> [@Jay4](#): > > to bad they arent smart enough to relize that eventually the takers will out number the makers.and guess what? good bye your shit free healthcare > > to bad you idiots wanted your freebies though.have fun with a worse america because of it.to bad my way or the highway isnt the best approach at running a country.its time to turn off the obama ass kissing mainstream media and look around you for once,things are only gonna get worse Question for Jay4, going back to 2003 when around that time the ‘makers’ as you call them got a big Federal Tax Cut when America was ‘at war’. That was not a normal policy when America’s at war, but the Makers got their tax cuts to ‘spur the economy’ and ‘create jobs’ beyond our wildest Reaganomics dream. How did that work out by Summer 2008… ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261.md?page=7)