# This is Boehner's shutdown **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 3, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261 "2013-10-03T12:06:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/121 "2013-10-07T19:32:25Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > Ah, yes, the Fox News “slimdown.” One thing I give the Tea Party/conservative side of the argument … they get their talking points together and stick to them extremely well. > > I am a government employee. My job is considered “essential,” so I am still working. But I am not getting paid. Yes, I will get paid for my time once the shutdown is over and government is funded again, but until then … I work for IOUs. Funny thing, the electric company and the grocery store and the bank holding my car loan and my mortgage, none of those people will take IOUs for payment. Not to mention all the employees who are told not to come to work, and faced the prospect of not getting paid for that time at all. Or the businesses who count on visitors to federal lands and parks to bring in their incomes, or even the restaurants and shops who count on the spending of government employees. > > You tell them to their faces that this is just a “small scale reduction in operation.” This stuff matters. It matters to real people, real Americans. It’s not just “playing games,” as our esteemed Speaker railed about the other day. When you take a job you should make yourself aware of the pros and cons of that job. While I am sorry that the president threatened to veto the House’s attempt to make sure you were paid and senate Democrats were cowed by this threat, the threat of the ACA effects many more millions of workers who don’t receive a bloated federal salary or pension. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/122 "2013-10-07T19:44:30Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > When you take a job you should make yourself aware of the pros and cons of that job. While I am sorry that the president threatened to veto the House’s attempt to make sure you were paid and senate Democrats were cowed by this threat, the threat of the ACA effects many more millions of workers who don’t receive a bloated federal salary or pension. We already know that competition is showing that many are paying 1000s of dollars in excess for their health care, not only individuals, but companies as well. I guess you can say that that is no a threat as the jobs lost because of the excess costs are something that already took place. :rolleyes: No, health care reform in reality will bring more flexibility and more freedom to the American people, IMHO the opponents of reforms and the ones that want to keep us with the old system are only defending a system that medieval feudal lords would be proud of. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/123 "2013-10-07T19:47:52Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > Nice job poisoning the well, right from the get-go The Elections forum is a cess pool. Nothing potable to poison. > [@](#): > > I might be willing to say you could conceivably find some support for similar tactics regarding a temporary government shutdown if they were used by Democrats over Iraq War funding. Maybe. Perhaps. It’s within the realm of possibility. However, I think I give my fellow liberals and progressives of the SDMB credit that very few (or none, I would hope) would at all support playing games with the nation’s economy by fooling around with the debt limit. Shutdowns have happened before, we have lived through them, and we all know in this hypothetical the Democrats would cave and re-open the government after a few days. You give them credit they don’t deserve, but thanks for playing along. > [@](#): > > The debt ceiling, though, is dangerous ground. I’m not sure the Tea Party really knows what they have their hands on or what the effects of default are really going to be. Creditors need to wake up from their oblivion in one way or another. > [@](#): > > (As an aside, too, how many past government shutdowns were EVER instigated by the Democrats holding out for something? Unless Newt was a secret Democrat, it’s nice to try to create a false equivalency, but past history doesn’t help you out here.) I know Democrats would never be blamed for any shutdown. The present case is illustrative. The President threatened to veto any spending on governmnent that does not include the ACA, and he gets a free pass from any and all press inquiries. > [@](#): > > New GOP talking point bingo! I heard Pat Buchanan bring up the Fugitive Slave Act this morning on McLaughlin! You’re right! It’s exactly the same! It was the first thing that came to mind. It is an excellent example that destroys \*\*Chronos’ \*\*weak logic. You have no argument to counter it, so you demagogue the issue. > [@](#): > > The way to get laws repealed is to get enough of your side elected into office to vote it out. Period. When that fails, it does NOT follow that you then hold your breath and refuse to pay for that law until you turn blue. Who the hell are you to decide how a law is to be dismantled? A lot of people seem to think they hold some kind of legislative playbook handed down from Mount Sinai. When the people send representatives to Congress, they don’t have to follow the **Uncle Jocko** creed > [@](#): > > Or the economy collapses, whichever comes first. By the economy i assume you mean Wall Street, because the working class will only be liberated by default. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/124 "2013-10-07T19:51:47Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > We already know that competition is showing that many are paying 1000s of dollars in excess for their health care, not only individuals, but companies as well. I guess you can say that that is no a threat as the jobs lost because of the excess costs are something that already took place. :rolleyes: > > No, health care reform in reality will bring more flexibility and more freedom to the American people, IMHO the opponents of reforms and the ones that want to keep us with the old system are only defending a system that medieval feudal lords would be proud of. Oh please get off your high horse. You are defending a bill drafted by insurance company cronies, lol. I am in favor of genuine free market reform. Not something cooked up in the dungeons of the capitol building. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/125 "2013-10-07T20:00:13Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Question for Jay4, going back to 2003 when around that time the ‘makers’ as you call them got a big Federal Tax Cut when America was ‘at war’. That was not a normal policy when America’s at war, but the Makers got their tax cuts to ‘spur the economy’ and ‘create jobs’ beyond our wildest Reaganomics dream. > > How did that work out by Summer 2008… ? Haha now the financial crisis is blamed on tax cuts! Lord help us. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/126 "2013-10-07T20:05:45Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I disagree that your claim about the Fugitive Slave Act is idiotic. But it is dangerous. Moderate differences of opinion are being exaggerated to such an extent that half of [Republicans say U.S. headed toward ‘armed revolution’](http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2013/may/2/republicans-say-us-headed-toward-armed-revolution-/). Am I seriously afraid that the new Tea Party will lead to mass death the way the one in 1773 did? No, because the forces of law and order are stronger than they were in the eighteenth century. So it won’t get to where there are set-piece battles. But convincing people that tax issues amount to slavery does have a history of leading to violence, and you shouldn’t do it. It was the first example that came to mind. I wasn’t drawing any intentional parallels. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/127 "2013-10-07T20:09:43Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Oh please get off your high horse. You are defending a bill drafted by insurance company cronies, lol. I am in favor of genuine free market reform. Not something cooked up in the dungeons of the capitol building. However it was drafted, the ACA is very superior to the current system. Disallowing insurance companies from turning folks away for pre-existing conditions alone makes it vastly superior. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/128 "2013-10-07T20:11:21Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I know Democrats would never be blamed for any shutdown. The present case is illustrative. The President threatened to veto any spending on governmnent that does not include the ACA, and he gets a free pass from any and all press inquiries. And shouldn’t he, considering the ACA already is law and all efforts to repeal it have failed? > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Who the hell are you to decide how a law is to be dismantled? A lot of people seem to think they hold some kind of legislative playbook handed down from Mount Sinai. When the people send representatives to Congress, they don’t have to follow the **Uncle Jocko** creed. No, but they do have to follow the Constitution, which **tells** us how you dismantle a law, i.e., you have to go through the same steps required to enact one. This is basic HS civics-class stuff. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > By the economy i assume you mean Wall Street, because the working class will only be liberated by default. From their homes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/129 "2013-10-07T20:16:01Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > So maybe what many people actually have a problem with is that, contrary to their own views of the ACA, there is a large body of Americans who do not want the ACA. These people sent representatives to the People’s Chamber to stop it. But not enough of them to the other chamber, therefore they don’t get to. Basic HS civics-class stuff. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The idea that the 2012 election settled the debate on the ACA is laughable. Nothing ever settles the **debate** on a political issue, but what the GOP is doing now goes way beyond debate. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > They were two sides of the same fascist coin on health care. :rolleyes: Have you not noticed that most of the First-World countries have some form of UHC and none of them are fascist? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/130 "2013-10-07T20:17:25Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > …By the economy i assume you mean Wall Street, because the working class will only be liberated by default. This is a fascinating proposition, but needs a bit of fleshing out. Perhaps you will explain? ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/131 "2013-10-07T20:24:17Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Who the hell are you to decide how a law is to be dismantled? A lot of people seem to think they hold some kind of legislative playbook handed down from Mount Sinai. It’s called the United States Code. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/132 "2013-10-07T20:25:31Z")
I made the mistake of reading Boehner’s twitter feed for a few minutes… :eek: The sheer number of absolute idiots in this country calling for the GOP to “keep it shut down” and saying they (the GOP) bear zero blame is mind boggling! I drive on the same roads as these people, that is scary. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/133 "2013-10-07T20:27:55Z")
And it gets [more ridiculous](http://www.mydesert.com/article/20131007/NEWS03/310070001/Ted-Cruz-lying-shutdown-Devin-Nunes-accusation?nclick_check=1): > [@](#): > > Rep. Devin Nunes, a conservative Republican from California’s Central Valley, on Monday accused freshman GOP Sen. Ted Cruz of lying to House Republicans that they could dismantle the Democratic health care reform law known as Obamacare by forcing a government shutdown. > > Nunes, R-Tulare, said the strategy pursued by Cruz, a Texas freshman, and to a lesser extent Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, is “based on a false premise” because Republicans can’t get two-thirds votes in the House and the Senate to override President Barack Obama’s veto when he rejects any bill that ends his signature law. They’ve screwed the pooch and they know it, they just can’t find a way out of this without looking like complete idiots. But rather save face and threaten the economy of the US instead of doing what’s right. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/134 "2013-10-07T20:37:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And shouldn’t he, considering the ACA already is law and all efforts to repeal it have failed? Your fellow Obamaphile was perhaps unaware that the House passed a bill to fund the entire government less ACA. > [@](#): > > No, but they do have to follow the Constitution, which **tells** us how you dismantle a law, i.e., you have to go through the same steps required to enact one. This is basic HS civics-class stuff. The Constitution does not limit Congressional action to that alone. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But not enough of them to the other chamber, therefore they don’t get to. Basic HS civics-class stuff. And the ACA doesn’t have the support in the House to get funded. Basic civics, indeed. > [@](#): > > Nothing ever settles the **debate** on a political issue, but what the GOP is doing now goes way beyond debate. Yes it’s called activism. > [@](#): > > :rolleyes: Have you not noticed that most of the First-World countries have some form of UHC and none of them are fascist? Are you suggesting that the ACA isn’t living, breathing fascism? If so, i suggest you recalibrate your understanding of the term or the bill. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/135 "2013-10-07T20:39:03Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Oh please get off your high horse. You are defending a bill drafted by insurance company cronies, lol. I am in favor of genuine free market reform. Not something cooked up in the dungeons of the capitol building. Translation: ‘I have no good reply to the costs issue or the freedoms lost in the current system’, BTW I take your point that you are only interested on real reform with a boulder size grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/136 "2013-10-07T20:39:32Z")
> [@Skip](#): > > It’s called the United States Code. Perhaps you can point to the section Boehner and Co. are in violation of? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/137 "2013-10-07T20:40:35Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Your fellow Obamaphile was perhaps unaware that the House passed a bill to fund the entire government less ACA. A minor detail, right? > [@](#): > > Are you suggesting that the ACA isn’t living, breathing fascism? If so, i suggest you recalibrate your understanding of the term or the bill. Oh dear. Someone else who hasn’t gotten to the 1930’s in History class yet. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/138 "2013-10-07T20:41:26Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Translation: ‘I have no good reply to the costs issue or the freedoms lost in the current system’, BTW I take your point that you are only interested on real reform with a boulder size grain of salt. You simply assert that costs will go down with no evidence. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/139 "2013-10-07T20:41:54Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Are you suggesting that the ACA isn’t living, breathing fascism? If so, i suggest you recalibrate your understanding of the term or the bill. It is a law, but thank you for showing where are getting your information. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261/140 "2013-10-07T20:47:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > A minor detail, right? Follow the thread if you are trying to be cheeky. Poster \*\*Skip \*\*was unaware of Obama’s veto threat and lamented that the House had no reason to not fund the rest of government. > [@](#): > > Oh dear. Someone else who hasn’t gotten to the 1930’s in History class yet. Fascism was characterized by state domination of “private” industry. Class dismissed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-boehners-shutdown/670261.md?page=8)