# This is going to bankrupt every major Landlord in the Country. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [March 19, 2020, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845 "2020-03-19T22:06:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/41 "2020-03-20T16:27:59Z")
Around here, there have been some requests from the government for banks to allow delays of mortgage payments, business rent breaks, allow delay of utility payments and a number of proposed government bail out programs. It sounds expensive, but reasonable under the circumstances. This is in Canada. Remains to be seen how well it’s going to work, but I don’t see local evidence for the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/42 "2020-03-20T16:34:52Z")
There are valid, public health reasons to suspend evictions for the duration of the crisis. First, as said, we want to keep people out of homeless shelters or on the street. Second, we want to limit the number of people who have to go to court. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/43 "2020-03-20T16:40:23Z")
Duplicate ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/44 "2020-03-20T16:46:53Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > As the old adage goes - if you owe the bank $1,00,000 you have a problem. If you owe the bank $100,000,000 the bank has a problem. > These are not ordinary times. The banks are staring down thousands of landlords with commercial mortgages that won’t be able to make their payments because their tenants are unable to pay. It isn’t the tenants that have the problem. The banks are the ones with the problem. Nobody wins by evicting tenants. Nobody wins by foreclosing mortgages. There are no prospective tenants waiting to take over the lease, and there are no prospective new landlords waiting to buy distressed property. > As an Canada, here in Oz there is a six month hiatus on business loans. This is probably only the start. Nobody anywhere should be considering closing down existing commercial relationships because of delinquency. It will just run up the chain and make things worse for everyone. How this is managed is going to be interesting to see. You can pretty much ignore money theory of any kind for now. For all useful purposes the money world will run with a stopped clock. The next few weeks will stop it. How it is restarted without the money world going into fits is going to be the really interesting bit. This is basically what I was thinking while considering the effect on small business (since most discussion on this thread seems to be about renters and homeowners). I think like in Canada, the US will have to do something along those lines, since as you said, it’ll be so massive an issue that the rich and powerful will HAVE to deal with it proactively in SOME way, or they’re the ones who’ll be taking a bath. ---
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/45 "2020-03-20T16:59:22Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > Under normal circumstances, sure. The tenant signs a contract, and is expected to live up to the terms of the contract, or suffer the consequences specified in the contract. Today, have some compassion. Your hypocrisy is truly incredible. Landlords need to be prepared for half their tenants to go rent-free (I’m definitely pulling that number out of my ass, but let’s just say), but renters can’t possibly anticipate the same? Personally, I don’t think this was reasonably foreseeable by ANYONE, and that landlords are being fucked over as much as renters. I feel sorry for ALL involved, and there’s honestly no easy solution. It’s one thing to hope for free or reduced rent for April. It’s another to expect months of free rent, “because that’s just a risk landlords take.” That’s bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/46 "2020-03-20T17:37:48Z")
> [@Kovitlac](#): > > Your hypocrisy is truly incredible. Landlords need to be prepared for half their tenants to go rent-free (I’m definitely pulling that number out of my ass, but let’s just say), but renters can’t possibly anticipate the same? > > Personally, I don’t think this was reasonably foreseeable by ANYONE, and that landlords are being fucked over as much as renters. I feel sorry for ALL involved, and there’s honestly no easy solution. > > It’s one thing to hope for free or reduced rent for April. It’s another to expect months of free rent, “because that’s just a risk landlords take.” That’s bullshit. Where’s the hypocrisy? I’m the one volunteering to be out the money. I know so many people have tantrums when they find out that some people get a break that they don’t get. Tough, life isn’t fair. In this case, I’m letting the burden of the financial hardship fall on the person with more ability to absorb that (me), rather than the person who can’t. My unemployed tenant is going to have enough trouble affording food, if he’s late on the rent for a few months, I’ll survive. If I never get some of the money, I’ll still survive. I do think of this as giving money to my tenant, which is not something I’d be inclined to do under normal circumstances; he’s not my kid. But as I’ve said before, what are my options? Not rhetorical, what are they? Do you want to get into all the reasons some people have wealth and others don’t? That should probably go to GD or The Pit. And talk of cancelling cable to pay rent. First, it’s 2020, we’re not talking about cable, we’re talking about a \<$20 month Netflix subscription. Cancelling that will barely make a dent in the $1500 rent payment. A big screen TV is $300, sure, unemployed is no time to buy one, but simply having one isn’t undeserved luxury. Drop the smart phone and internet, for what? To save another $100/month but now be completely disconnected from the modern world, with no ability to apply for new jobs, take gig work, or stay connected with their former employer. If I were poor or homeless, the first thing I’d get and last thing I’d give up would be a smartphone. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/47 "2020-03-20T17:37:55Z")
The government just stepped in and is pushing for a policy that will give up to 12 months of suspended or reduced mortgage payments. Right now its just for Fannie and Freddie by they expect the entire industry to adopt them. The money won’t just disappear, I guess it gets rolled into your existing mortgage and you end up paying back the money you own down the line. > **[U.S. Orders Up To A Yearlong Break On Mortgage Payments](https://www.npr.org/2020/03/19/818343720/homeowners-hurt-financially-by-the-coronavirus-may-get-a-mortgage-break)** > > The federal government is telling lenders to lower or suspend mortgage payments for up to 12 months for homeowners who have lost income due to the coronavirus outbreak. > [@](#): > > Federal regulators, through the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are ordering lenders to offer homeowners flexibility. The move covers about half of all home loans in the U.S. — those guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie. But regulators expect that the entire mortgage industry will quickly adopt a similar policy. > > Under the plan, people who have suffered a loss of income can qualify to make reduced payments or be granted a complete pause in payments. > > “That forbearance is up to 12 months, depending on their particular situation,” says Mark Calabria, director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which oversees Fannie and Freddie. > > Homeowners can’t just stop paying their mortgage. “They need to contact their servicer — that is the lender that they send the check to every month,” he says. “That lender will work with them to be able to work out a payment plan. Obviously, we hope to get them back on their feet as soon as possible.” ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/48 "2020-03-20T17:41:55Z")
> [@a6ka97](#): > > My point was that housing SHOULD be a priority but many people think there are more important things in life like cable TV, cigarettes, etc… You do realize that there’s a worldwide pandemic causing severe and sudden unemployment, right? And that we are discussing tenancies in that context, right? I mean, this is an entire forum dedicated to the coronavirus that you are posting in. ---
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/49 "2020-03-20T18:43:31Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > Where’s the hypocrisy? I’m the one volunteering to be out the money. I know so many people have tantrums when they find out that some people get a break that they don’t get. Tough, life isn’t fair. In this case, I’m letting the burden of the financial hardship fall on the person with more ability to absorb that (me), rather than the person who can’t. My unemployed tenant is going to have enough trouble affording food, if he’s late on the rent for a few months, I’ll survive. If I never get some of the money, I’ll still survive. I do think of this as giving money to my tenant, which is not something I’d be inclined to do under normal circumstances; he’s not my kid. But as I’ve said before, what are my options? Not rhetorical, what are they? > > Do you want to get into all the reasons some people have wealth and others don’t? That should probably go to GD or The Pit. > > And talk of cancelling cable to pay rent. First, it’s 2020, we’re not talking about cable, we’re talking about a \<$20 month Netflix subscription. Cancelling that will barely make a dent in the $1500 rent payment. A big screen TV is $300, sure, unemployed is no time to buy one, but simply having one isn’t undeserved luxury. Drop the smart phone and internet, for what? To save another $100/month but now be completely disconnected from the modern world, with no ability to apply for new jobs, take gig work, or stay connected with their former employer. If I were poor or homeless, the first thing I’d get and last thing I’d give up would be a smartphone. Good for you - I’m glad that YOU feel the financial burden is one you can handle. What’s hypocritical is demanding that all others be able to do the same, which is how your post comes across. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/50 "2020-03-20T19:36:21Z")
> [@a6ka97](#): > > 1. The cost of wear and tear on property doesn’t exist when nobody is living there. As mentioned, unoccupied units deteriorate and are targets for squatters and druggies. Visit neighborhoods of abandoned houses to see the consequences. > [@](#): > > My point was that housing SHOULD be a priority but many people think there are more important things in life like cable TV, cigarettes, etc… Can you name some of those “many people”? I’ve been a low-paid renter and a small-scale landlord. I know tribulations on both sides. Evictions only make sense if the tenant is destructive or easily replaced. Empty units generate no income and don’t maintain themselves. If a landlord is living month-to-month, perhaps they should sell out and find work. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/51 "2020-03-20T20:01:34Z")
Are people here seriously arguing simultaneously that: 1. People who can’t afford to keep paying the rent if they lose their jobs shouldn’t rent an apartment, but 2. People who can’t afford to keep paying the mortgage if someone doesn’t pay rent to them should still go ahead and buy a property in addition to the one they plan to live in, and 3. We should have more sympathy for the folks in #2 losing money than the folks in #1 who would be out on the street in a pandemic if the folks in #2 had their way, and 4. If we don’t, that’s class warfare? (Unlike throwing people out into the streets when you don’t even have anyone to replace them)? ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/52 "2020-03-20T20:47:51Z")
> [@Kovitlac](#): > > Good for you - I’m glad that YOU feel the financial burden is one you can handle. What’s hypocritical is demanding that all others be able to do the same, which is how your post comes across. This is exactly what I’m saying. Let’s pretend like there is no worldwide crisis at the moment. My tenant decides to move out at the end of the lease. For _reasons_ I end up going a month or two without rent before a new tenant starts paying. That is a completely expected situation for a landlord to be in. One that anybody who decides to get into the landlord business needs to expect will happen sometimes. It is a _risk_ that all landlords take. If a landlord can’t survive going a few months without rent, then they need to get out of the business. Sure, unexpected setbacks happen to landlords, too. Maybe today I can absorb the loss, but after two years of economic depression, and losing my own job I can’t. At that point I’m looking to sell before I get a lien placed by the HOA, a tax seizure by the city, or a foreclosure from the bank. Maybe I can pass the financial burden upstream. Perhaps I’m going to get to delay some mortgage payments without penalty. Perhaps the banks will get a trillion dollar bailout package to help them get over the mortgage payments everybody got to delay. All of these are expected. That’s why there was a huge stock market selloff. The longer this pandemic goes on, the greater the economic impact. Unfortunately, the pandemic can’t be ended just because it is bad for the bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/53 "2020-03-20T20:48:34Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The government just stepped in and is pushing for a policy that will give up to 12 months of suspended or reduced mortgage payments. Right now its just for Fannie and Freddie by they expect the entire industry to adopt them. > > The money won’t just disappear, I guess it gets rolled into your existing mortgage and you end up paying back the money you own down the line. > > [U.S. Orders Up To A Yearlong Break On Mortgage Payments : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2020/03/19/818343720/homeowners-hurt-financially-by-the-coronavirus-may-get-a-mortgage-break) I’m getting a few calls from people (as if I know the details of what has largely been announced verbally) that they are being told by their lenders that this federal policy only applies to those who hold mortgages on their primary residence. So if your renter has lost his or her job because of the financial crisis, and you were using that rent to pay your mortgage, then you don’t get relief. That makes little sense. Instead of the landlord evicting the tenants, it will be the banks after they foreclose on the property. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/54 "2020-03-20T20:51:03Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > This is exactly what I’m saying. Let’s pretend like there is no worldwide crisis at the moment. My tenant decides to move out at the end of the lease. For _reasons_ I end up going a month or two without rent before a new tenant starts paying. That is a completely expected situation for a landlord to be in. One that anybody who decides to get into the landlord business needs to expect will happen sometimes. It is a _risk_ that all landlords take. > > If a landlord can’t survive going a few months without rent, then they need to get out of the business. Sure, unexpected setbacks happen to landlords, too. Maybe today I can absorb the loss, but after two years of economic depression, and losing my own job I can’t. At that point I’m looking to sell before I get a lien placed by the HOA, a tax seizure by the city, or a foreclosure from the bank. > > Maybe I can pass the financial burden upstream. Perhaps I’m going to get to delay some mortgage payments without penalty. Perhaps the banks will get a trillion dollar bailout package to help them get over the mortgage payments everybody got to delay. > > All of these are expected. That’s why there was a huge stock market selloff. The longer this pandemic goes on, the greater the economic impact. Unfortunately, the pandemic can’t be ended just because it is bad for the bottom line. It is also expected by tenants that if they are late on the rent, they will be out on their ass pretty quickly. So again, why is it only the landlords that need to be financially responsible, but not tenants? Further, I dispute that landlords price a couple of months of unoccupancy per year. If a lease is almost up, they look for new tenants immediately. Landlords take a hit when property is vacant. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/55 "2020-03-20T21:06:45Z")
Can someone show me where anyone is talking about free rent? I’m just seeing a ban on evictions - which is not quite the same thing. Governor Cuomo, on this very issue, asked where landlords who evicted someone were going to find new tenants. He also mentioned that rental agents could no longer run around showing apartments. I’d think any intelligent landlord would want to keep tenants in, even if they only get a fraction of the rent for the moment. Small landlords I feel for. There should be mortgage relief for them also. Slumlords like Jared Kushner, not so much. Unemployment application sites are crashing from too much traffic, so let’s not pretend that the problem here is people wanting luxuries over rent payments. That’s insensitive crap. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/56 "2020-03-20T21:10:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Can the OP explain to me how a ban on evictions in New York will bankrupt every major landlord in the country? People live west of the Hudson river? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/57 "2020-03-20T21:11:03Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > You’re one of the few good ones. My experience in dealing with most landlords has not been favorable: greedy, unwilling to make repairs, usurious, cruel and uncaring. Until recently, Portland has had a no-notice eviction law in place that allowed people to be put out on the street with zero warning, regardless of whether or not they were good tenants. Guess who lobbied for that? It’s not about good ones or bad ones. That is an amazing act by engineer\_comp\_geek, but most landlords simply can’t afford to go without that income. ---
**Author:** ![str8cashhomie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7cd45c/32.png) [@str8cashhomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/str8cashhomie)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/58 "2020-03-20T22:51:54Z")
EDIT: Wrong thread. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/59 "2020-03-20T23:06:08Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It is also expected by tenants that if they are late on the rent, they will be out on their ass pretty quickly. So again, why is it only the landlords that need to be financially responsible, but not tenants? In normal times, sure. These are not normal times. That’s the whole point of this discussion. It’s hard to call somebody financially irresponsible because their job disappeared due to a global pandemic. Let’s say instead of my tenant getting to live free, he says he’s moving back to the coast to stay with his parents? I’m still not getting paid, but nobody is getting a free lunch. I’m left financially responsible, because I’m the one who took the risk by owning rental property. > [@UltraVires](#): > > Further, I dispute that landlords price a couple of months of unoccupancy per year. If a lease is almost up, they look for new tenants immediately. Landlords take a hit when property is vacant. Big, big difference between pricing in a few months without rent every year versus planning that it may occasionally happen. As I said _reasons_. Here are a few completely mundane reasons that it might occur: A place needs new paint, carpet, cleaning, or other maintenance between tenants, so is empty for a time while that is done; the market is soft, so it takes longer than desirable to find a new tenant; the market is cyclical, such as tied to a university, and the vacancy is out of cycle, so difficult to fill; an otherwise desirable tenant can’t move in immediately, so the place sits empty for a bit; space aliens invade and enslave anybody who doesn’t own property. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845/60 "2020-03-20T23:13:02Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It’s not about good ones or bad ones. That is an amazing act by engineer\_comp\_geek, but most landlords simply can’t afford to go without that income. In this case the landlords might not have any choice, whether they can afford it or not. The tenants didn’t have any choice about losing their jobs. They don’t have any choice about not having money to pay rent. The government (here in Colorado, and other places) is suspending all eviction proceedings. This is not a situation I want, but is the situation I have. As I said before, not rhetorically, what are my options as a landlord? Everybody who is offended by the prospect of some people going rent free, please let me know what else I can do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-bankrupt-every-major-landlord-in-the-country/849845.md?page=4)