# This is going to sound ignorant, a question for Atheists **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 14, 2003, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172 "2003-11-14T03:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/21 "2003-11-14T06:17:35Z")
I agree with AndrewT. Hypothetically, one who believed in an afterlife could kill someone and not feel too bad about it - he didn’t end his life, he just moved it to a different place. But as an atheist, I believe that if someone is killed, they are gone, and snuffing out a life completely is IMHO much worse than kicking some soul’s ass into Kingdom Come literally. ---
**Author:** ![Extraneous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/0ea827/32.png) [@Extraneous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Extraneous)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/22 "2003-11-14T06:37:10Z")
This atheist _does_ believe in a soul - a.k.a. spiritual component of life (all life, not just vertebrates with large brains). It ends with death, just as does personality, knowledge, memory, etc. Murder - wrong. Bad karma, that kind of thing - as a society, we have an interest in preventing/punishing. Suicide - the right of all living things. Abortion - the sentient one gets to decide, and it’s no one else’s business “Killing” - an everyday thing. Be more specific, and we can discuss detailed opinions. One adult human killing another adult human? Well, that’s why we have the different terms “kill” and “murder”, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/23 "2003-11-14T06:49:10Z")
Murder is bad. I have no problem with suicide or abortion. ---
**Author:** ![SanguineSpider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SanguineSpider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanguineSpider)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/24 "2003-11-14T06:55:26Z")
Humanity, not deity!!! Goddamn it! ---
**Author:** ![Eternal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@Eternal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eternal)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/25 "2003-11-14T07:20:04Z")
I’m one of those selfish types of athiests. I don’t really care about murder or any of that. I only care about my own comfort. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/26 "2003-11-14T09:12:46Z")
**Eternal** : But murder does impact you. Imagine if a random person were killed in your town, a janitor, say. That janitor’s family is going to be pretty well screwed up over it, especially his son, who is now bereft a positive role model. That son decides to gulp booze and get in his car, thereby killing both himself and you when he runs a red light right into your vehicle. See? Murder is wrong. It eventually impacts everyone in a negative way. That isn’t _why_ it’s wrong, but it’s a good example of an instance of it being wrong. Murder would be wrong even if it impacted nobody but the decedant. It is simply a moral crime, irrespective of the flavor-of-the-month religion people seem to adhere to. **CaptBushido** : I’m an atheist and I don’t believe in anything whatsoever. In fact, that is the real definition of an atheist, as opposed to the simplistic rendering of the Latin roots or the even more simplistic re-defining of it some seem to do. I don’t have any beliefs. I only accept evidence and facts, and I make conclusions from logic as often as I can. My mind can always be changed by evidence. I have no patience for handwaving or bullshit, however, and that is all the concept of a deity has to back it up. The supernatural as a whole, in fact, falls into the handwaving and bullshit camp. Is that my belief? No, it is my informed opinion after actually hearing out both sides (again and again). ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/27 "2003-11-14T11:44:02Z")
Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/28 "2003-11-14T11:50:10Z")
I am an atheist, and against abortion, although I would not make it illegal for practical reasons. Just suffice to say that I think it’s a hateful thing to do and should only be done in extreme circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/29 "2003-11-14T12:50:14Z")
I believe in souls, I just call them by a different name. And yes, killing/murder/abortion are “bad” as you describe them, but for completely different reasons then yours, I’d imagine. I’m against the death penalty, but pro-choice. there’s so many different shades of gray, here, I don’t even know where to begin. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/30 "2003-11-14T12:53:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by teemingONE \* > **Just to be clear, you guys don’t believe in souls, correct?** Some people believe that a soul persists after death, but don’t believe in God. AFAIK they are athiests, but for the purposes of this debate, I’ll assume we’re talking about the standard western sort of Athiest. On that note, people define soul in different ways. In this post I’ll use persisting-soul to mean an aspect of you that persists after death. > [@](#): > > If this is so, then is suicide/killing/murder and abortion as bad to you guys as it is to us religous folk? \*\* I think many people have answered your question, but it made me want to ask: Did you think that not believing in persisting-souls would make dieing less bad? If so, can you explain why? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/31 "2003-11-14T12:56:48Z")
I would think that not having a soul that lives on after you die would make life even more precious. But anyway, on the death penalty, I’m in favor in principle. I have no objections to murdering murderers. But in practice, there is evidence that to many innocents are on death row. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/32 "2003-11-14T12:58:08Z")
\*another \* ‘ask the atheïst’ thread? Wow, we must be hot. This atheïst doesn’t believe in souls. Killing + murder = bad suicide + abortion = is not. [I said this atheïst, meaning me, gum.] ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/33 "2003-11-14T13:36:58Z")
I am an atheist and I don’t believe in souls. I do, however, believe that life is precious and should only be taken in exceptional circumstances (self-defence, for example). I have mixed emoptions on abortions, mostly because I am not a woman and can’t really appreciate the ramifications of the whole “right to choose” concept. In other words, I think that abortion is, by itself, a bad thing, but I really can’t comment on whether the need for a woman to have control over her own body constitutes an “exceptional circumstance” that would justify it. Personally, I think that any orderly society needs for life to be given the utmost respect. After all, _my_ life is certainly precious to me, and if I want other people to respect that, I need to be willing to respect that _their_ lives are just as precious. Barry ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/34 "2003-11-14T13:38:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by teemingONE \* > \*\*Just to be clear, you guys don’t believe in souls, correct? > > If this is so, then is suicide/killing/murder and abortion as bad to you guys as it is to us religous folk? \*\* Just to be clear, if you _didn’t_ believe in souls, would you go on a killing rampage? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![MrO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/50afbb/32.png) [@MrO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrO)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/35 "2003-11-14T13:53:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CaptBushido \* > **. . . I’ve seen way too many atheists that actually swear that they believe _without a doubt_ that there is no divine being of any sort.** Those are _strong_ atheists, and do not represent all atheists. Even strong atheists, in my view, have a stronger case than theists, but that’s another argument. To the OP: some atheists believe in souls; some don’t. Many Buddhists, pagans, etc. lack any belief in gods, but nevertheless believe in souls, and lots of other hocus-pocus. As for this atheist: I think that suicide and abortion are always sad, unfortunate, probably indicative of some failure or mistake somewhere, but not necessarily wrong. Murder, as I understand the term, is always wrong. Killing? Well, usually wrong, but justified in some cases involving defense. I’ve read few books with as much killing as the Christian Bible, and to my mind, much of that was unjustified. Killing is clearly not bad to all religious folks. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/36 "2003-11-14T15:34:54Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by CaptBushido_ > . . . I’ve seen way too many atheists that actually swear that they believe without a doubt that there is no divine being of any sort. Just wondering whether you’d place me in that camp. I believe in a divine being about as much as I believe that two suns will rise tomorrow morning rather than one. It’s feasible, but there’s no evidence to suggest it’ll happen. As for the OP, like others, killing is bad because people only get one life. How could a soul discourage killers? Surely people who believe in souls would be doing religious folk a favour by murdering them, and hence expediating their passage to the divine joys of the afterlife? Now I’m wondering… why doesn’t the OP kill people? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_great_unwashed/32/4791_2.png) [@The\_Great\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/37 "2003-11-14T16:13:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CaptBushido \* > **…Atheism requires just as big an unscientific leap of faith as any religion.** [Oh no it doesn’t.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=215227) The atheist position is a) _falsifiable_, and, b) a consequence of the application of _Occam’s Razor_ – these are two of sciences major footholds – but read the thread if you care to, I’d be interested to see if you have any arguments to support your oh-so-scientific fence-sitting. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/38 "2003-11-14T17:00:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gex gex \* > \*\*Now I’m wondering… why doesn’t the OP kill people? \*\* I believe the OP is looking at the murder’s side, i.e. believers in souls won’t commit murder because they’re afraid of their soul being dammed. Since atheists don’t believe in souls, they are free to murder all they want. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/39 "2003-11-14T17:54:04Z")
Gotta support **CaptBushido’s** view. Athiests know for sure and spiritualists know for sure. Agnostics don’t yet have enough information to commit. We may never. Don’t see that it makes any difference in my life. I think life is more precious if in fact we have no souls. And I also don’t neccessarily associate the existence of the soul with the existence of any deity or deities. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172/40 "2003-11-14T18:11:07Z")
Excuse the slight hijack but I thought [Eternal was a Christian](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=4216629#post4216629). Have I been whooshed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-going-to-sound-ignorant-a-question-for-atheists/213172.md?page=3)