# This is how you blow a very winnable election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 26, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094 "2020-08-26T21:25:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/241 "2020-08-28T16:49:15Z")
Best way to accomplish this is to beat the GOP into dust, let the Democrats control everything, and inevitably split into two parties. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/242 "2020-08-28T16:50:52Z")
I fear we may need a judge’s ruling on whether it’s anti- Trump right leaning moderates or left-wing progressives we should be chasing in this election. You and I certainly can’t seem to agree. Which is weird, because from my p.o.v. I may be somewhat more left leaning than you. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/243 "2020-08-28T16:53:05Z")
A party can’t tailor a message well when they are trying to make it appeal to two completely different groups at the same time. They will inevitably alienate either us or the disaffected Republicans, since we have no common ground with people like them. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/244 "2020-08-28T17:01:09Z")
I don’t see any further moderate Republicans coming over. If Kasich’s speech at the DNC didn’t convince them, nothing will. We don’t need to chase the progressives, they are already here. We just need to not alienate them by further compromising our party in a futile attempt to appease those who are against everything that the party claims it stands for. You are Canadian right? For you, a conservative is to the left of a moderate democrat. I live in Trumplandia. I have acquaintances (no friends) who are Republicans. The ones who will vote for Biden will vote for Biden. They already made that choice long ago. The ones who will vote for Trump will vote for Trump, and there’s no changing that. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/245 "2020-08-28T17:01:11Z")
> [@Boudicca90](#): > > I’m not a social democrat, i’m a socialist, as in a collective ownership of the means of production socialist. Most of Bernie’s core support were farther left than he is, and he was the bridge between us and the Democrats, but even his modest proposals were too extreme for them. And with that, I will wish you the best of luck. I must return to exploitation of society by capitalist means for my filthy lucre, while I still can. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/246 "2020-08-28T17:06:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If Kasich’s speech at the DNC didn’t convince them, nothing will. I don’t know that it didn’t. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/247 "2020-08-28T17:09:01Z")
It didn’t for my mother, but she’s a racist who thinks that the BLM activists should be shot by the National Guard. We’re not picking her up. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/248 "2020-08-28T17:09:27Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I see progressives, and I hear them tell me that they _do_ feel abandoned, that their needs are not being heard, much less addressed, and I see that this has been the case for as far back as I can look. That’s because in the spectrum of American politics, they’re an extreme fringe. They’re the Democratic/Left equivalent (at least in terms of distance from the center) of loons like the alt-right. And that’s the point that some of us are trying to make- pandering to them does nothing but actively turn off the more moderate Democrats, much less the moderate anti-Trump Republicans out there who are likely to vote for Biden, unless he or the Democratic party does something very stupid. And this talk of not voting at all because Biden/the Democratic party aren’t doing what they want sure sounds like what petulant children do, not fully grown adults. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/249 "2020-08-28T17:11:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You are Canadian right? For you, a conservative is to the left of a moderate democrat. I am. But have lived in the US for many years now. Still have family up there though. I would not say that the difference between a Canadian conservative and moderate American Democrat is that stark. I think it largely overlaps and includes some moderate Republicans as well. I am however, a Canadian Liberal. So yeah, well left of an American moderate. I have no idea what the current New Democratic Party is up to these days. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/250 "2020-08-28T17:14:40Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s because in the spectrum of American politics, they’re an extreme fringe. They’re the Democratic/Left equivalent (at least in terms of distance from the center) of loons like the alt-right. There are more than you think that support universal healthcare, free college education, and even some form of UBI. These are not fringe, other than the fact that the Democratic party pushes them to the edges. > [@bump](#): > > And this talk of not voting at all because Biden/the Democratic party aren’t doing what they want sure sounds like what petulant children do, not fully grown adults. Not voting for a party that doesn’t represent your interests seems a pretty rational and grown up thing to do. But you are saying that not voting for Biden because some protesters are chanting “Defund the police” is the _adult_ thing to do? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/251 "2020-08-28T17:17:30Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Not voting for a party that doesn’t represent your interests seems a pretty rational and grown up thing to do. The reason the allies made a compact with Stalin wasn’t because they liked communism. The converse being equally true. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/252 "2020-08-28T17:21:15Z")
Were they making a compact with Stalin to be their president? I think that, if the terms of the Alliance said that Stalin was to have any say whatsoever over the operating of the Allied countries, that alliance would not have ever happened. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/253 "2020-08-28T17:24:50Z")
Frankly, the US was making a much more serious commitment by allying with Stalin than a random left wing voter is by voting for Biden. And Stalin had a lot of say. The analogy isn’t perfect because the allies had enough power to maneuver around what he wanted, but the iron curtain happened because the USSR occupied those countries, had allied help for doing so, and then negotiated with the other allies and got things like splitting Germany as a concession. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/254 "2020-08-28T17:25:11Z")
The analogy is that the extreme left can make a compact with the moderate Dems to defeat the real enemy that is Trumpism. You yourself said the schism of the Democratic party can come later. In fact, you welcome it. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/255 "2020-08-28T17:32:28Z")
> [@bump](#): > > But when you phrase that as “Defund the Police”, you just raised the hackles of everyone who views the police as anything but fascist oppressors. Defunding them implies reducing their capacity to maintain law and order. To stop crimes. To bring lawbreakers to justice, and so on. Which isn’t the point of the idea, but that’s what a LOT of people hear, not necessarily just the far-right wingers. > > Talk about giving ammunition to the other side. Trump and the GOP couldn’t have come up with a more inflammatory way to describe that aspect of what the Left/BLM wants, if they’d used focus groups and spent a million dollars on analysis and marketing. And the worst part is that BLM/the Left did it to themselves. Also keep in mind that to the Right and even many moderates living in their boring suburbs, they don’t see the BLM movement as a fight against oppression. They view it as a violent uprising by criminals, anarchist, Marxists and other elements of society they largely despise, coming to take what’s theirs. Basically, the left has inadvertently created what amounts to a right-wing nightmare. For three years, anyone with any conservative sensibilities felt under PC attack because of the left’s outrage over Donald Trump. Then you have a pandemic where Democratic state and local governments are trying to instill more controls to slow the spread of the virus. Now you have the BLM protests and riots while many on the left are advocating defunding police forces. Like this comes right out of the “Why you need 20 guns in your basement” handbook ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/256 "2020-08-28T17:34:26Z")
Exactly! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/257 "2020-08-28T17:35:25Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > And Stalin had a lot of say. The analogy isn’t perfect because the allies had enough power to maneuver around what he wanted, but the iron curtain happened because the USSR occupied those countries, had allied help for doing so, and then negotiated with the other allies and got things like splitting Germany as a concession. This doesn’t really make the analogy all that favorable. If asking the progressives to ally with the moderates is like the Allies allying with Stalin, and Stalin then went and got a bunch of “concessions” that meant oppressing hundreds of millions of people, then I see that as a cautionary tale, not a recommendation. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > The analogy is that the extreme left can make a compact with the moderate Dems to defeat the real enemy that is Trumpism. But the moderate left cannot make a compact with those further to the left? I really do not consider most of the progressive party to be all that extreme. I don’t agree with some things, I do with others, but it’s hard to sort out when it’s all just all lumped in as “extreme”. I don’t think that calling for the police to stop brutalizing the citizens that it is supposed to protect is all that extreme, and I don’t think that asking people to allow it to continue without complaint in order to defeat Trump is reasonable compact to ask them to sign on to. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > You yourself said the schism of the Democratic party can come later. In fact, you welcome it. Yeah, and until then, we need to work together. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/258 "2020-08-28T17:36:16Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > They view it as a violent uprising by criminals, anarchist, Marxists and other elements of society they largely despise, coming to take what’s theirs. And they will as long as they watch Fox News and further right wing sources that tell them these things. It won’t matter what BLM actually does, it will be twisted into something that makes fragile easily scared white suburbanites scared. That’s all they have, fear. That’s what they tell us all day and night, fear fear fear. And now elements of my party are trying to tell me that I should be fearing them too. Out of curiosity, are you voting for Biden? ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/259 "2020-08-28T17:38:06Z")
The Stalin analogy works better when applied to the Democrats cozying up to groups like the Lincoln Project. That is working with the enemy to defeat a more dangerous enemy. And FYI, insulting us and diminishing our concerns like @bump and other centrists tend to do just pushes us farther away. My centrist and liberal friends always like to take opportunities to vote-shame me. It doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/260 "2020-08-28T17:40:27Z")
> [@Boudicca90](#): > > My centrist and liberal friends always like to take opportunities to vote-shame me. It doesn’t work. Sometimes folks should be ashamed of who they vote for. Trump voters should be ashamed, IMO. ISTM that it’s reasonable to believe that anyone not casting their vote to increase the best chance possible of beating Trump, and beating the GOP in general, is being shameful with their vote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094.md?page=14)