# This is how you blow a very winnable election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 26, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094 "2020-08-26T21:25:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/341 "2020-08-30T17:36:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > [@Boudicca90](#): > > > > …unless you are going to blame the GOP for the initial form of the ACA as well (which they vehemently opposed). > > I will. > > The ACA is essentially RomneyCare which is what Mitt Romney (republican) put in place in Massachusetts and was basically written by the Heritage Foundation (a conservative think tank). > > Republicans just reflexively opposed anything Obama did. > > Kidjanot: > > [PolitiFact | Obama says Heritage Foundation is source of health exchange idea](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2010/apr/01/barack-obama/obama-says-heritage-foundation-source-health-excha/) This is where I’m going to, as I usually do in these debates, indicate the exchanges are only PART of the ACA and if you ask Heritage they’ll tell you themselves that they strongly objected to the mandates in the ACA on insurance companies (regarding preventive care, preexisting condition exclusions, annual and lifetime maximums). Heritage and other Republicans just want healthcare to be on the ‘market’ with no other restrictions - that’s not the ACA ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/342 "2020-08-30T17:37:53Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > > > Listen, don’t let exchanges and working though ER based insurance blind you to all the Democratic positions in the bill that Republicans strongly objected to. > > Well, yeah, because they object to the very notion of a universal healthcare system. > > That’s the whole point. Trying to reach across the aisle to get someone on board that will never come on board is futile. The issue here is that the most moderate Democrats at the time weren’t that far apart from the most moderate Republicans on health care. You just needed 60 so might as well try to grab them from the 6 most moderate members. I mean how often have a heard from the left that Senator Manchin is “basically a Republican” so why wouldn’t you try to reach some Republicans in case he voted no on the body of the ACA? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/343 "2020-08-30T17:39:56Z")
And did it work? I can see how, at the time, they may have thought that they would get some on board, but at this point, it’s a fool me once… won’t get fooled again situation. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/344 "2020-08-30T17:41:49Z")
Did Romney care have a mandate? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/345 "2020-08-30T17:49:59Z")
It did. It also required employers to pay a penally if they didn’t offer health insurance - which was vetoed by Romney, and then his veto was overridden. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/346 "2020-08-30T17:52:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And did it work? > > I can see how, at the time, they may have thought that they would get some on board, but at this point, it’s a fool me once… won’t get fooled again situation. True, but at the time there was some hope. Remember Senator Arlen Specter jumped to the Democratic Party in 2009. There was a feeling that Senator Collins could be enticed as well. Unfortunately she decided to go more to the right instead. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/347 "2020-08-30T18:29:50Z")
I think too many people look at the Dem’s tactics when it came to the ACA as some sort of proof of their fixed ideological position which I don’t agree with. However, I think their tactics were generally flawed. They did have at least some insight into the fact that the GOP plan was to obstruct at every turn and I don’t think they sufficiently acted on it. We obviously don’t know what would have happened if they hadn’t extended the olive branch to the same degree, so all we can really do is analyze what did happen. The full extent of McConnel and Cantor’s plan to obstruct everything and then blame the Democrats wasn’t known, but [they did get an indication from many GOP senators and reps that there was going to be no cooperation on major votes.](https://swampland.time.com/2012/08/23/the-party-of-no-new-details-on-the-gop-plot-to-obstruct-obama/) > [@](#): > > • One Obama aide said he received a similar warning from a Republican Senate staffer he was seeing at the time. He remembered asking her one morning in bed, How do we get a stimulus deal? She replied, Baby, there’s no deal! > > “This is how we get whole,” she said with a laugh. “We’re going to do to you what you did to us in 2006.” > > • David Obey, then chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, met with his GOP counterpart, Jerry Lewis, to explain what Democrats had in mind for the stimulus and ask what Republicans wanted to include. “Jerry’s response was, ‘I’m sorry, but leadership tells us we can’t play,’ ” Obey told me. “Exact quote: ‘We can’t play.’ What they said right from the get-go was, It doesn’t matter what the hell you do, we ain’t going to help you. We’re going to stand on the sidelines and bitch.” > > Lewis blames Obey and the Democrats for the committee’s turn toward extreme partisanship, but he doesn’t deny that GOP leaders made a decision not to play. “The leadership decided there was no play to be had,” he says. Republicans recognized that after Obama’s big promises about bipartisanship, they could break those promises by refusing to cooperate. In the words of Congressman Tom Cole, a deputy Republican whip: “We wanted the talking point: ‘The only thing bipartisan was the opposition.’ ” I think Obama and the other Democratic leadership knew that Republicans were going to obstruct everything, but they had the flawed theory that by always showing themselves willing to compromise, Republican obstruction would turn the American people against them. I think this is just a misunderstanding of what voters care about. Also - “He remembered asking her one morning in bed” - Obama literally in bed with republicans confirmed. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/348 "2020-08-30T18:38:25Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > {…} Also - “He remembered asking her one morning in bed” - Obama literally in bed with republicans confirmed. {…} For definitions of _literally_ that literally are not literal. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/349 "2020-08-30T18:41:56Z")
Oh also I didn’t copy the most important part of the quote. > [@](#): > > • Vice President Biden told me that during the transition, he was warned not to expect any bipartisan cooperation on major votes. “I spoke to seven different Republican Senators who said, ‘Joe, I’m not going to be able to help you on anything,’ ” he recalled. His informants said McConnell had demanded unified resistance. “The way it was characterized to me was, ‘For the next two years, we can’t let you succeed in anything. That’s our ticket to coming back,’ ” Biden said. The Vice President said he hasn’t even told Obama who his sources were, but Bob Bennett of Utah and Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania both confirmed they had conversations with Biden along those lines. > > “So I promise you — and the President agreed with me — I never thought we were going to get Republican support,” Biden said. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/350 "2020-08-31T17:13:46Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Republicans just reflexively opposed anything Obama did. And still do. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/351 "2020-09-01T05:23:14Z")
I’m so fucking happy about the Biden speech today. It’s everything I had hoped for, and more: > **[Analysis: Out of the 'basement,' Biden pummels Trump](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/out-basement-biden-pummels-trump-n1238919)** > > Analysis: The president and his campaign were left at odds with each other after Joe Biden bluntly condemned rioting and looting, blaming Trump for violence in the streets. 😍 > [@k9bfriender](#): > > I am happy to say that my taxes have gone to help support your children. > > Me, as a single white male in his 30’s was denied food assistance because they thought I should just get another job instead. (When there were no jobs to be had in 2010) Thank you. And yes, I tend to agree that the way these programs are set up is too miserly when it comes to single men with no dependents. That might even be part of what hurts us electorally with that demographic. There’s some kind of classic sexism embedded in there, like implicitly saying “Be a man” or whatever. > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > This is where I’m going to, as I usually do in these debates, indicate the exchanges are only PART of the ACA and if you ask Heritage they’ll tell you themselves that they strongly objected to the mandates in the ACA on insurance companies (regarding preventive care, preexisting condition exclusions, annual and lifetime maximums). Heritage and other Republicans just want healthcare to be on the ‘market’ with no other restrictions - that’s not the ACA Yes, thank you for pointing that out. I would also mention the requirement to partially refund premiums if less than a certain percentage (85% IIRC) goes directly to health care. This is huge as it removes any incentive for insurance companies to chisel profits by raising premiums. And then of course there is Medicaid expansion, not something the Heritage Foundation envisioned and also very important. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/352 "2020-09-01T13:21:19Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > And yes, I tend to agree that the way these programs are set up is too miserly when it comes to single men with no dependents. That might even be part of what hurts us electorally with that demographic. There’s some kind of classic sexism embedded in there, like implicitly saying “Be a man” or whatever. I can see that, and I also see that I am the exception. Those of my demographic, white, male, non-college graduate, go overwhelmingly for Republicans. And that we get little support from the govt, as we are supposed to be able to entirely bootstrap ourselves, is one of the reasons. However, I don’t really see my fortunes being _better_ with republicans in charge, just that they will be better relative to others that they will hurt. Not really what I’m looking for. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Yes, thank you for pointing that out. I would also mention the requirement to partially refund premiums if less than a certain percentage (85% IIRC) goes directly to health care. This is huge as it removes any incentive for insurance companies to chisel profits by raising premiums. And the problem with that is that it encourages insurance companies to allow and even encourage healthcare cost inflation. The higher the medical costs, the higher the premiums they get to charge, which they get to keep 15% of. It’s the same distinctive as the expenses plus contracts that has held our space program back until rich people decided to start their own. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > And then of course there is Medicaid expansion, not something the Heritage Foundation envisioned and also very important. Something that states had the option of choosing whether or not to participate, and the states that needed it the most opted out. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/353 "2020-09-01T14:19:28Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I’m so fucking happy about the Biden speech today. It’s everything I had hoped for, and more: > [Out of the 'basement,' Biden pummels Trump](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/out-basement-biden-pummels-trump-n1238919) > 😍 Me, too. It’s still the high road, but at least he’s aggressively moved into the passing lane. I just wish he wouldn’t say “fomented.” 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/354 "2020-09-01T14:27:38Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > However, I don’t really see my fortunes being _better_ with republicans in charge, just that they will be better relative to others that they will hurt. > > Not really what I’m looking for. I think that’s key; for most people, very little actually changes across different presidential administrations. The world keeps spinning, and there are occasionally strange little tweaks here and there that you notice- stuff like your annual physical suddenly being covered 100% due to the ACA, or that Bush-era refund check. But most of the time, things chug on just like they always have; our state legislatures and local governments have a LOT more day-to-day impact on most people’s lives, not whatever goes on in Washington DC. That’s one reason I’m not so sure that Trump’s “winning” so much these days; between his pathological lust to be in the spotlight all the time, his shambolic response to the pandemic, and his constant attempts to gaslight the nation, he and his presidency are IN people’s lives like no other president’s has ever been. I mean, unless you followed politics, you could go weeks without actually hearing/seeing stuff that Obama or Bush did, except in the occasional passing story about one of them being on a trip, or a vacation or something. Trump on the other hand, is getting his wish, but it’s almost all negative press, with the exception of journalistically questionable sources who are little more than his cheerleaders. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > And that we get little support from the govt, as we are supposed to be able to entirely bootstrap ourselves, is one of the reasons. Beyond the implicit sexism that says that you should suck it up, I think there’s some recognition that a younger single man typically has more options in terms of moving and/or working in less pleasant jobs or conditions. To use an extreme example, Uncle Sam might be disinclined to pay for food stamps for a twenty-something man, but might be totally willing to train him how to use a rifle and wear a uniform. Or they might figure you can go work on a fishing boat in Alaska, or mine in Wyoming, or whatever that they wouldn’t expect someone with a family to uproot themselves to go do. It’s not necessarily exactly right, but there’s some logic there. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/355 "2020-09-01T14:39:30Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Something that states had the option of choosing whether or not to participate, and the states that needed it the most opted out. In the original bill the ACA tied ALL federal Medicaid funding to Medicaid expansion (meaning if you refused to expand Medcaid, you would get none of it). SCOTUS struck it down in _National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius_. I’m surprised how people tended to focus so much on Holdings 1 and 2 (ACA being declared a tax and individual mandate was unconstitutional) that they completely ignored/forgot Holding 3. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/356 "2020-09-02T00:09:49Z")
Biden campaign is expected to announce it raised more than $310 million in August > **[Joe Biden is expected to announce a historic fundraising haul of more than...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/01/politics/joe-biden-august-fundraising/index.html)** > > Joe Biden's presidential campaign is expected to announce it raised more than $310 million in August, three sources familiar with the campaign's fundraising tell CNN, a record-breaking haul propelled by fundraising around the selection of California... ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/357 "2020-09-02T01:47:44Z")
> [@Boudicca90](#): > > He was so concerned with “bipartisanship” at a time when they wanted to burn him in effigy. Right, that’s why he actually got ACA passed with one . fucking . Republican . vote A pushover and cuckold for bipartisanship, that guy. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/358 "2020-09-02T02:14:20Z")
I could be wrong about the legislative history, but I believe the relevant vote where the Dems got 60 votes was [this one](https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00396) where they only had Democratic votes. I believe after that the Senate only voted on reconciliation for the original bill which couldn’t be filibustered. The only GOP support they got that I’m aware of was from Olympia Snowe in committee, which wasn’t a necessary vote. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/359 "2020-09-02T15:59:35Z")
$364 million raised in August for Biden: > ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/360 "2020-09-02T17:34:45Z")
In the interests in hopefully, possibly, easing some worry about the protests helping Trump, I offer this link from Nate Silver. He ain’t especially buying it. > **[Do You Buy That … Backlash Against The Protests Helps Trump?](https://fivethirtyeight.com/videos/do-you-buy-that-backlash-against-the-protests-helps-trump/)** > > Visit the post for more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094.md?page=19)