# This is how you blow a very winnable election **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 26, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094 "2020-08-26T21:25:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/41 "2020-08-27T00:25:21Z")
What do you think the significance of condemning it during the convention would have been? Why do you think that bad polling at this particular moment is significant when there has been a mix of police brutality, peaceful protest, violence and rioting going on for months? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/42 "2020-08-27T00:28:23Z")
The cite I provided is from August 13. Biden’s comments related to Kenosha demonstrations are the most current. Hence why I said Democrats have not stopped advocating for peaceful protests and against violence and destruction of property. Do you believe saying it at the Convention would have prevented the latest Wisconsin protests and destruction of property? If so, show your work. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/43 "2020-08-27T00:43:19Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > I have no idea what Trump’s grades were. Is this what you are talking about? Gee gosh no. **This** is what I’m talking about. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > BTW, I notice that you haven’t mentioned the white teenage out-of-state militia member who happened to kill people during the protest. Why not? What do you have to say about that shooting? Still waiting for an answer. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/44 "2020-08-27T00:48:32Z")
I have no information on that just like I have no info on Trump’s grades. I prefer to wait for facts. Remember the “hands up don’t shoot” myth that was eventually debunked by the Obama administration? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/45 "2020-08-27T00:54:53Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > I prefer to wait for facts. [Here are the facts](https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2020-08-26/shots-fired-on-third-night-of-wisconsin-unrest-over-police-shooting-of-black-man). ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/46 "2020-08-27T01:00:06Z")
Yep…he had a knife. Unfortunately the police have to follow their training or they could end up dead. Here’s why: > **[Paris police attack: Four killed by knife-wielding employee](https://www.bbc.com/news/49921145)** > > A knife-wielding employee targeted colleagues at central police headquarters in the French capital. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/47 "2020-08-27T01:08:23Z")
So, a Sister Soulja moment? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/48 "2020-08-27T01:17:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But that doesn’t jive with Trump’s propaganda You mean “jibe”. Or I sure _hope_ it’s what you mean, anyhow. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Biden also unequivocally condemned the “needless violence” stemming from the demonstrations in Kenosha, Wisconsin, in response to the shooting and called for healing and unity. I’m very glad to see that. But that’s not what this thread is primarily about. I want to see a denunciation of this mob mentality, this pressure to go along with the group or to be intimidated and publicly shamed. If there is any possible lifeline for Republicans, it is middle Americans who are afraid that without any GOP political power to keep it in check, this kind of thing will be oppressive, everywhere, that no one will feel free to dissent from the most doctrinaire “woke” shibboleths without getting the mob unleashed on them. It doesn’t even matter whether that is actually what _would_ happen, only if this kind of thing, with no denunciation from Democrats, makes them fear it _might_ be so. Biden in particular needs to provide explicit reassurance that in his America, there will be scrupulous protection of the right to dissent on any and all topics. > [@Reply](#): > > That forced fist-raising seems pretty silly, but also doesn’t quite rise to the level of Nazis killing Americans and then being labeled “very fine people”. Of course it doesn’t. So what? I find it sickening any time bad behavior on the hard left is justified by “look at this other thing Trump did that’s worse”. You can _always_ find something like that. We need to set the bar a little higher! I also think that word “silly” is frankly inappropriate. Do you think it felt “silly” to the woman sitting there? I imagine it would feel a lot more intimidating than that, but I admire her for not caving in to the pressure. > [@ThisIsTheEnd](#): > > Biden’s not stupid, he’ll make a separation at some point, more than once if he has to. Maybe Harris will get in on the action. > > Exclusively blaming Trump as some might suggest, is not going to be enough. > > He can disavow assholes without disavowing BLM, it’s not that difficult. He’ll just have to listen to fringy Twitter cry for a couple of days and threaten not to vote for him, I’m sure he can handle that and isn’t afraid of it. I hope you’re right–I would thrill to this! > [@agzem](#): > > Did Biden condemn violence during the convention? Biden did something during the convention that I know some lefties were sore about, but which I thought was great. He was meeting with families of Black people who had been killed by police, and he said–right to their faces!–either “most cops are good” or “most police are good”. So great! > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Do you believe saying it at the Convention would have prevented the latest Wisconsin protests and destruction of property? If so, show your work. Do you really think that’s the purpose or point? This is the Politics and Elections forum, so let’s not be naive here. The idea is to gain political advantage, or more precisely to blunt any political advantage the other side might be getting. What practical, real-world effect it may or may not have is completely irrelevant. ETA: > [@E-DUB](#): > > So, a Sister Soulja moment? Yes, this is _exactly_ what we need. Although I think it’s Souljah, with an H. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/49 "2020-08-27T01:17:58Z")
I provided the wrong link. I meant to provide the link about the shooter that was arrested and charged with first degree homicide. You said you didn’t know the facts: > **[Illinois teen arrested in fatal shooting at Kenosha protest, police say | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/us/kenosha-wisconsin-wednesday-shooting/index.html)** > > A 17-year-old Illinois resident connected to an overnight shooting during a protest in Kenosha, Wisconsin, was taken into custody Wednesday morning, according to police in Antioch, Illinois. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/50 "2020-08-27T01:23:05Z")
I think I will wait for a few more facts. Has it even been 24 hours yet? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/51 "2020-08-27T01:31:01Z")
The authorities feel like there is sufficient evidence to charge him with a very serious crime. But sure, give it another 24 hours. See what spin right-wing media outlets come up with. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/52 "2020-08-27T01:32:47Z")
Don’t need it. He’s already being lauded as a hero by _certain circles_. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/53 "2020-08-27T01:33:55Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You mean “jibe”. Or I sure _hope_ it’s what you mean, anyhow. A typo, but it turns out to be a common variant anyway: > **['Jive' vs. 'Jibe' vs. 'Gibe'](https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/jive-jibe-gibe)** > > We hope you jibe with our advice. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/54 "2020-08-27T01:39:28Z")
I hate Illinois nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/55 "2020-08-27T02:16:43Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Of course it doesn’t. So what? I find it sickening any time bad behavior on the hard left is justified by “look at this other thing Trump did that’s worse”. You can _always_ find something like that. We need to set the bar a little higher! > > I also think that word “silly” is frankly inappropriate. Do you think it felt “silly” to the woman sitting there? I imagine it would feel a lot more intimidating than that, but I admire her for not caving in to the pressure Somehow, I think she’ll live. Not so for the hundreds of thousands dead by the Right. Who the fuck cares if some cowardly whites are made uncomfortable? Their comfort is not more important than minority lives. They’ll just have to suck it up. Look at this yelling mob rudely asking the woman to raise a fist, then look at the armed terrorist murdering people for no reason and the cops just letting him walk away. Who cares about some bloody screaming while white terrorists are killing Americans for the hell of it, spurred on by the president? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/56 "2020-08-27T02:20:08Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Somehow, I think she’ll live. Not so for the hundreds of thousands dead by the Right. Again, so what? The fact that she’ll live doesn’t mean it’s right for her to be intimidated that way. (It’s also wrong, BTW, when everyone in a restaurant courtyard just goes along with it so they don’t risk being menaced this way. In a sense it’s even more wrong, although it doesn’t make for a dramatic video.) Nor does it matter that others do things that are worse. Last I checked, you can’t go to court charged with armed robbery and argue that it’s not a big deal because you just threatened to shoot people but didn’t actually pull the trigger. Yes, the Right has blood on its hands. Lots of it. That doesn’t mean the Left can just go around intimidating people with mobs and (1) it’s morally right and (2) doesn’t potentially have dire political consequences that get us a lot more of the Right in power. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/57 "2020-08-27T02:26:57Z")
It’s nice to be able to see it as some game of chess with sub optimal plays, but kinda misses the point when the village is on fire. This isn’t a time for civility. Sorry, the world in which that sort of thing matters is long dead. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/58 "2020-08-27T02:37:23Z")
And yet, we nominated and are trying to elect a Democratic candidate that is exactly that - a return to civility and normalcy. You can’t argue for a return to civility and behave in a way that undermines those principles. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/59 "2020-08-27T02:40:17Z")
The people who made that strategic decision reign over the likes of those who are out in the streets. Part of their anger is towards those people. Police brutality isn’t just a Republican issue. I guarantee you that a return to civility now will result in an even worse Trump 4 to 8 years later. The Democrats are not capable of handling the immense task of rebuilding laid before them. At best they stall for time. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094/60 "2020-08-27T02:50:52Z")
> [@agzem](#): > > think I will wait for a few more facts. Has it even been 24 hours yet? And yet you’ve been supplying us with numerous links to articles that purport to support your beliefs without spending any time at all examining them or looking at their context or bothering to find out whether anything they say are reliable. What an amazing coincidence that you don’t have to back up anything you say but our objective reports are to be ignored. I’m beginning to sense a pattern in your posts. And they’ve been appearing for more than 24 hours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-how-you-blow-a-very-winnable-election/919094.md?page=4)