# This is interesting. Bush and Blair really did intend war. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907 "2006-02-03T22:16:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/21 "2006-02-04T02:59:55Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > They think so. :rolleyes: > **[News](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/?xml=%2Fnews%2F2005%2F10%2F23%2Fwirq23.xml&sSheet=%2Fportal%2F2005%2F10%2F23%2Fixportaltop.html)** > > Latest breaking news, including politics, crime and celebrity. Find stories, updates and expert opinion. 23/10/2005 … The Sunday Telegraph disclosed last month that a plan for an early withdrawal of British troops had been shelved because of the failing security situation, sparking claims that Iraq was rapidly becoming “Britain’s own Vietnam”. The survey was conducted by an Iraqi university research team that, for security reasons, was not told the data it compiled would be used by coalition forces. It reveals: • Forty-five per cent of Iraqis believe attacks against British and American troops are justified - rising to 65 per cent in the British-controlled Maysan province; • 82 per cent are “strongly opposed” to the presence of coalition troops; • less than one per cent of the population believes coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security; • 67 per cent of Iraqis feel less secure because of the occupation; • 43 per cent of Iraqis believe conditions for peace and stability have worsened; • 72 per cent do not have confidence in the multi-national forces. The opinion poll, carried out in August, also debunks claims by both the US and British governments that the general well-being of the average Iraqi is improving in post-Saddam Iraq. The findings differ markedly from a survey carried out by the BBC in March 2004 in which the overwhelming consensus among the 2,500 Iraqis questioned was that life was good. More of those questioned supported the war than opposed it. Under the heading “Justification for Violent Attacks”, the new poll shows that 65 per cent of people in Maysan province - one of the four provinces under British control - believe that attacks against coalition forces are justified. The report states that for Iraq as a whole, 45 per cent of people feel attacks are justified. In Basra, the proportion is reduced to 25 per cent. The report profiles those likely to carry out attacks against British and American troops as being “less than 26 years of age, more likely to want a job, more likely to have been looking for work in the last four weeks and less likely to have enough money even for their basic needs”. Immediately after the war the coalition embarked on a campaign of reconstruction in which it hoped to improve the electricity supply and the quality of drinking water. That appears to have failed, with the poll showing that 71 per cent of people rarely get safe clean water, 47 per cent never have enough electricity, 70 per cent say their sewerage system rarely works and 40 per cent of southern Iraqis are unemployed. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/22 "2006-02-04T03:09:25Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > most importantly, American lives. . **Least** important, less important than dirtied doormats. Totally unimportant. A positive boon to global wellbeing. An ongoing campaign of just punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/23 "2006-02-04T03:11:17Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > **Least** important, less important than dirtied doormats. Totally unimportant. A positive boon to global wellbeing. An ongoing campaign of just punishment. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/24 "2006-02-04T03:12:44Z")
Posted too soon again. In any case, my last post was a quote from the link, except the roll eyes. This is a good place to mention the best timeline regarding how we were misled to the Iraq War: [http://downingstreetmemo.com/timeline/](http://downingstreetmemo.com/timeline/) ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/25 "2006-02-04T03:18:25Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Tell it to people sitting in the dark, afraid of being killed by either passing American troops or some faction. Tell it to the women who now have fewer rights. Tell it to the jobless, who have watched America rape and warp the Iraqi economy, or been forbidden jobs because they are Iraqi. It was an argument that many conservatives are making. Personally, I’m not sure. It’s worse now for women and children, but better for the Kurds and the prospects for long term freedom seem to be better. I honestly don’t know. > [@Der Trihs](#): > > Because, of course, the _far higher_ Iraqi death toll doesn’t matter. As foreigners, they are simply cattle for our use. Ignoring your hyperbole, you have a damn good point. I’m ashamed that, in listing the costs of the war, I left out the cost in Iraqi lives. It was inexcusable. > [@Der Trihs](#): > > Besides, “conservative” pretty much equals “sociopath”, as far as I can tell. They don’t _care_ about the harm they have caused Again, ignoring your hyperbole, I agree that the costs of this idiotic war are horribly ignored by this administration and its lackeys. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/26 "2006-02-04T03:33:14Z")
Despite the dire numbers in that poll, **Gigobuster** , the Iraqi’s may be better of (or at least consider themselves so) despite all that–perhaps they think that their current state is better then living under Saddam, because it’s a transition to a better government? Have there been any polls along the lines of, “Do you wish the US would never have invaded?” _That_ would be a truly interesting poll. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/27 "2006-02-04T03:37:55Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Ignoring your hyperbole, you have a damn good point. I’m ashamed that, in listing the costs of the war, I left out the cost in Iraqi lives. It was inexcusable. It was mockery of your ( apparent ) sick attitude toward Iraqi casualities, not hyperbole. I’m glad it was an error, and not callousness. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/28 "2006-02-04T03:41:00Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > **Least** important, less important than dirtied doormats. Totally unimportant. A positive boon to global wellbeing. An ongoing campaign of just punishment. You are such an unbeleivable unfathomable piece of shit. I’d state my true feelings, but the mods would punish me for being honest while letting you get away with breaking one of the most enforced rules on the boards. **Der Trihs** , you’re just as worthless. Can’t write “STFU” in MPSIMS without an official warning, but this shit flies straight and narrow? Fuck this. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/29 "2006-02-04T03:53:24Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > You are such an unbeleivable unfathomable piece of shit. I’d state my true feelings, but the mods would punish me for being honest while letting you get away with breaking one of the most enforced rules on the boards. > > **Der Trihs** , you’re just as worthless. > > Can’t write “STFU” in MPSIMS without an official warning, but this shit flies straight and narrow? Fuck this. Really ? I’ve never killed anyone, yet I’m a bad person for disapproving of mass murder/theft/conquest, and those who engage in it ? Pardon me, if I’m less than crushed by your disapproval. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/30 "2006-02-04T04:21:45Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Despite the dire numbers in that poll, **Gigobuster** , the Iraqi’s may be better of (or at least consider themselves so) despite all that–perhaps they think that their current state is better then living under Saddam, because it’s a transition to a better government? > > Have there been any polls along the lines of, “Do you wish the US would never have invaded?” > > _That_ would be a truly interesting poll. [http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1423308&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1423308&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312) > [@](#): > > Bush Leaves Out the Bad News in Iraqi Poll > > … > > Among the findings: > > More than two-thirds of Iraqis surveyed face-to-face opposed the U.S. presence, but only one-quarter of respondents wanted American troops to leave right away. > > 44 percent said their country is better off than before the war. > > … > > Half said the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq was wrong, up from 39 percent in February 2004. So the official poll shows Iraqis lost a lot of that wish too. But there is good news. I saved 15 percent on my car insurance by switching to Gei… …urk [Strangling noises] Ah, good! [Tosses the gecko that sometimes gets into the room into the trash] Sorry, where was I? Oh yes, the good news is that the latest poll did report that more than two-thirds said they expect things to get better in the coming months. Taking into account that Iraqis in this poll knew it was coming from the western press IMO the results are skewed more towards wishful thinking. In other words, I do think the Iraqis are still more like the ones revealed in the secret poll. (Not to mention that the last bit of good news is literally based on wishful thinking) ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/31 "2006-02-04T04:39:00Z")
Gosh I hate to actually address the OP… > [@](#): > > Mr Bush told Mr Blair that the US was so worried about the failure to find hard evidence against Saddam that it thought of “flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft planes with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in UN colours”. Mr Bush added: “If Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach {of UN resolutions}”. Jesus, if this is true, it’s fucking heinous and I hope gets the attention it deserves. How does the UN feel about Bush being willing to use them as the spark for his own little Reichstag fire? How will Americans react to yet more proof that this son of a bitch masquerading as patriotic leader is a warmongering, amoral liar who so desired a war that he was ready to _provoke_ a war into existence – no matter what lies he needed to tell, no matter how many lives he needed to sacrifice? Oh who am I kidding. No one will care no matter how much lefties scream. Righties will roll their eyes and say “big fucking deal, he can do what he wants, he’s president, TERRA! TERRA! FREEDOM ON THE MARCH! SADAAM = EVIL!” and the media will yawn and return to browbeating James Frey for crimes against humanity, I mean against Oprah. I’m a gentle person by nature – honest, I am! – but I must say, the past five years have taught me how to hate. This bastardly administration is contemptible. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/32 "2006-02-04T04:51:38Z")
At what point will Iraq be democratic enough to vote us off the island if they choose to? Who will be awarded the voting machine concession? Will a paper trail be required? Will political t-shirts be allowed within 100 yards of the polls? Will there be someone to lead a choir in singing _The Battle Hymn of the Republic_? (Please, please. Can we do the Mormon Tabernacle Choir arrangement? I like that part where the tenors sing, “Truth is marching…Truth is marching…”) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/33 "2006-02-04T05:01:47Z")
Sorry, I _should_ have addressed the OP. I’m not at all surprised that evidence keeps turning up about Bush’s intentions. I never really doubted that we would invade – even though I thought that there would be WMD. Let’s just say that Bush has lived up to every expectation that I had of him. But I am always disappointed when I continue to be disillusioned about the PM. I had a genuine liking for him. Did I just misjudge him all along or did Bush manage to corrupt a good man? Is there some other explanation? ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/34 "2006-02-04T05:21:08Z")
**Sevastopol**. **Der Trihs**. [May I see you for a moment?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=357222). ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/35 "2006-02-04T05:24:38Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Really ? I’ve never killed anyone, yet I’m a bad person for disapproving of mass murder/theft/conquest, and those who engage in it ? > > Pardon me, if I’m less than crushed by your disapproval. Come to the Pit. You’re approving American’s dying. It’ll be fun. Apologies for the distraction to the rest of you. It’ll be handled there. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/36 "2006-02-04T05:32:28Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Come to the Pit. Pssst **duffer** —this already is the Pit. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/37 "2006-02-04T05:36:21Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Pssst **duffer** —this already is the Pit. 😉 But mine is much warmer. You can go topless! ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/38 "2006-02-04T05:41:44Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > But mine is much warmer. You can go topless! :dubious: Are you sure that’s wise? Aesthetic standards differ, **duffer**. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/39 "2006-02-04T05:52:19Z")
Well! Thanks so much, **ETF**! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2006, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907/40 "2006-02-04T05:56:30Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > **Least** important, less important than dirtied doormats. Totally unimportant. A positive boon to global wellbeing. An ongoing campaign of just punishment. I’ve been mulling over this post for some time, trying to figure out how to word this. **Sevastopol** , you’re out of line here. Remarks indicating your indifference to American battle deaths are, in general, acceptable. The remarks you have made here are not only inflammatory, but are verging on trolling. Please desist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-bush-and-blair-really-did-intend-war/342907.md?page=3)