# This is interesting. Saddam really did have WMD's. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 31, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365 "2006-01-31T16:38:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/81 "2006-01-31T20:37:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > How can anybody prove they weren’t moved to Syria when there’s no proof they existed in the first place, you stupid ass? I agree with you but how do we know for sure about the evidence? Didn’t we bomb the shit out of lots of places that may have been sources of weapons (and wmds) before the troops/inspectors got there to verify? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/82 "2006-01-31T20:42:30Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > None of them present any physical evidence. Your “cites” are little better than mere hearsay. And your belief is based upon what again? It couldn’t have been hearsay right, you were probably there on the ground in Iraq performing the inspections yourself in order for your opinion to be based upon something other than hearsay right? ---
**Author:** ![Charger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df788c/32.png) [@Charger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charger)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/83 "2006-01-31T20:43:03Z")
Yellow barrels were well-known WMDs back in the 80s. Of course, back then WMD stood for Weapons of Mario Destruction. And they were thrown by gorillas. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/84 "2006-01-31T20:43:59Z")
**mswas** [Saddam’s WMD Moved to Syria, An Israeli Says](http://www.nysun.com/article/24480) I am blocked from reading this article. [Saddam’s WMD hidden in Syria, says Iraq survey chief](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/25/wirq25.xml) Interesting and lends some credence to the WMD moved to Syria Idea. [A relative of Syrian President Bashar Assad is hiding Iraqi weapons of mass destruction in three locations in Syria, according to intelligence sources cited by an exiled opposition party.](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1052337/posts) \*\*freerepublic \*\* is not a good source, very biased. Jim ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/85 "2006-01-31T20:44:55Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > Didn’t we bomb the shit out of lots of places that may have been sources of weapons (and wmds) before the troops/inspectors got there to verify? [Rumsfeld:](http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2003/t03302003_t0330sdabcsteph.html)"The area in the south and the west and the north that coalition forces control is substantial. It happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat. " Maybe they shoulda looked there? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/86 "2006-01-31T20:53:44Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > **mswas** > [Saddam’s WMD Moved to Syria, An Israeli Says](http://www.nysun.com/article/24480) I am blocked from reading this article. > > [Saddam’s WMD hidden in Syria, says Iraq survey chief](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/25/wirq25.xml) Interesting and lends some credence to the WMD moved to Syria Idea. > > [A relative of Syrian President Bashar Assad is hiding Iraqi weapons of mass destruction in three locations in Syria, according to intelligence sources cited by an exiled opposition party.](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1052337/posts) \*\*freerepublic \*\* is not a good source, very biased. > > Jim Fair enough. I’m not married to any particular reality on this subject, I just don’t consider the case as closed as a lot of people would love for it to be. In all fairness I would say that the bias in this case is less drawn from a desire for the Democrats to be right and the Republicans to be wrong, but from a desire for their to be no WMDs born from a genuine fear of our enemies having them. However, self-delusion out of fear is a very dangerous thing. I don’t have a particular interest in the truth being either way in this case, only that I see a lot of overly simplistic decisions about politics being argued on this board and any disagreement being labelled as a “Conspiracy Theory”. As I said before, Politics is a conspiracy by it’s very nature. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/87 "2006-01-31T20:54:25Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > He says that the weapons were moved in 2002 which would be about the right time to get them out of the country so that Hans Blix wouldn’t find them. > > I’m not claiming that what he is saying is true, only that it’s plausible, and that people here are just kind of parroting a party line dismissing something for which they don’t have the answer. So if this board is dedicated to fighting ignorance, then people shouldn’t be simply accepting bias that readily and scoffing at anyone that challenges that bias. > > It’s one thing to disbelieve it’s another to scoff. Fighting ignorance begins with critical thinking, **mswas**. The story this guy tells lends no support whatsoever to the contention that WMD’s were in Iraq. It doesn’t even pass the most basic sniff test. I mean, barrels with skulls and crossbones on them, for **Og** ’s sake? The only thing missing from this story is Darth Vader striding around with his theme music playing in the background. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/88 "2006-01-31T20:58:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Rumsfeld:](http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2003/t03302003_t0330sdabcsteph.html)"The area in the south and the west and the north that coalition forces control is substantial. It happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. **We know where they are.** They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat. " > > Maybe they shoulda looked there? Nah, the sooner they find 'em the sooner the war could end. The bolded part; They know where what are? The weapons or the places they where dispersed? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/89 "2006-01-31T20:59:13Z")
The scary thing to keep in mind is that **Clothahump’s** vote counts as much as yours… ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/90 "2006-01-31T20:59:44Z")
> [@Leviosaurus](#): > > Fighting ignorance begins with critical thinking, **mswas**. The story this guy tells lends no support whatsoever to the contention that WMD’s were in Iraq. It doesn’t even pass the most basic sniff test. > > I mean, barrels with skulls and crossbones on them, for **Og** ’s sake? The only thing missing from this story is Darth Vader striding around with his theme music playing in the background. I find your disbelief of something because it fits your sense of a pop culture cliche as less than compelling. Of course, I’m not privy to your fancy critical thinking skills and all. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/91 "2006-01-31T21:02:25Z")
> [@Leviosaurus](#): > > I mean, barrels with skulls and crossbones on them, for **Og** ’s sake? The only thing missing from this story is Darth Vader striding around with his theme music playing in the background. Don’t use that as an absurdity. The skull and crossbones are standard symbols on placards that represent poisons. That part isn’t implausible at all. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/92 "2006-01-31T21:02:38Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > And your belief is based upon what again? I’ve already told you that I do admit that the existence of WMDs remains a possibility. However, in the face of a continued lack of physical evidence, it becomes less and less likely as time goes on. It makes more logical sense to “play the odds”, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/93 "2006-01-31T21:03:55Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > I’ve already told you that I do admit that the existence of WMDs remains a possibility. However, in the face of a continued lack of physical evidence, it becomes less and less likely as time goes on. It makes more logical sense to “play the odds”, as it were. See I find it more logical to reserve judgement. One doesn’t need to form a solid opinion on every subject that approaches their consciousness. To each his own. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/94 "2006-01-31T21:04:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Maybe they shoulda looked there? Or perhaps in the abandoned old funfair that’s rumoured to be haunted: ask the cranky old caretaker Mr Grimley for the keys. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/95 "2006-01-31T21:08:15Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > The skull and crossbones are standard symbols on placards that represent poisons. That part isn’t implausible at all. Yes, but the very prevalence of the skull and crossbones symbol on containers of dangerous industrial chemicals negates its value as an indicator of WMD. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/96 "2006-01-31T21:09:00Z")
Where to even begin? Yes, Iraq had chemical weapons-and stopped manufacturing them in 1991/1992. Experts agree that time had rendered them essentially useless. Yes, the UN was unable to account for some of the aforementioned chemical weapons and once again,experts in the field have concluded Saddam used the missing chemical weapons against the Kurds. Kay offered a huge sum of money for proof of WMD’s and a free ticket anywhere in the world to anyone (and his family) that could reveal their existence. Given the conditions in Iraq when the offer was made, don’t you think that one or two of the men involved with moving said weapons, would have stepped up with evidence if there was any? > [@](#): > > **mswas** -However, self-delusion out of fear is a very dangerous thing. Including self-delusion based on the fear that your dearly held beliefs may be _wrong_, **mswas**. Ever thought that might be the reason that you insist on arguing the point? ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/97 "2006-01-31T21:10:36Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Don’t use that as an absurdity. The skull and crossbones are standard symbols on placards that represent poisons. That part isn’t implausible at all. Well, I don’t know much about the logistics of transporting chemical weapons, but I’d be willing to bet that they don’t come in 44 gallon drums that you can just throw in the back of a plane, skull and crossbones or not. Maybe it was pirate treasure. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/98 "2006-01-31T21:11:31Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > See I find it more logical to reserve judgement. One doesn’t need to form a solid opinion on every subject that approaches their consciousness. To each his own. Reserve judgement until what? The argument that there are/were WMD’s can be proved by finding them. The argument that there are not/were not WMD’s can be proved by not finding them, ever. So far, we have not found any. Like you say, that does not prove it one way or the other. However, it provides support for number 2 - not finding them, and continuing to not find them as time goes on, make argument 2 more and more likely. Yes, you’re right, we don’t know for certain. However, as we have found nothing so far, my opinion is “it is most likely that there never were WMD in Iraq”. Is it too hasty of me to have that opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/99 "2006-01-31T21:12:47Z")
While we’re comparing cites, here’s a choice bit from the Robb-Silberman Commission investigating the WMD intelligence failures: > [@](#): > > Some reporting indicated that Iraq may have moved biological and chemical weapons stockpiles to Syria just prior to the start of the war in March 2003. CIA, Title Classified (Dec. 13, 2004) (citing one classified intelligence report (March 2003) from a foreign service). The security situation along the border between Iraq and Syria prevented the ISG from conclusively ruling out the possibility that such weapons were transported across the border. Interview with Special Advisor to the Director of Central Intelligence Charles Duelfer (Oct. 13, 2004). \*\*It is important to note, however, that, given the overall findings of the ISG, there was nothing left to move by March 2003, save possibly some pre-1991 CW shells. Therefore, the conclusion that militarily significant stockpiles of CW or BW could not have been moved to Syria just before the war necessarily follows from the ISG’s overall findings about the state of Iraq’s WMD programs after 1991. \*\* [Cite.](http://www.wmd.gov/report/report.html) Damn that John McCain and his fellow panel members for making conclusions based upon their self-delusional fears. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/100 "2006-01-31T21:13:14Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > See I find it more logical to reserve judgement. Reserving judgement is all fine and dandy during the early days of the investigation. But when the days drag on into weeks and the weeks drag on into years then forming an opinion becomes logical, even necessary. How long would you have us wait for suitable evidence before finally saying, “Well, I guess there _aren’t_ any WMDs”? Where is the cutoff between sensible reservation of judgement and dogged denial? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365.md?page=6)