# This is interesting. Saddam really did have WMD's. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 31, 2006, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365 "2006-01-31T16:38:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/121 "2006-01-31T22:55:41Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I find it more logical to reserve judgement. I think my irony meter [exploded](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=331326). ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/122 "2006-01-31T23:23:13Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > I think my irony meter [exploded](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=331326). I’ve matured since then ;p Anyway, I wasn’t totally out of place regarding that particular issue, but you are correct, I didn’t reserve judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/123 "2006-01-31T23:40:52Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Umm no matter how much you would like for this to be the case I am not asking people to reverse judgement. People have concluded there were no weapons. Given the amount of effort that went into inspections and the amount of time that has passed without evidence of those weapons emerging, that’s a very rational conclusion to come to. You’re asking people to admit to some level of uncertainty that does not exist. So, umm, yeah, I’m gonna say that’s reversing judgment. I prefer evidence for that, not the number two guy in the Air Force saying he knows two anonymous guys who swear they flew the weapons to Syria. > [@](#): > > I don’t know how VX gas is made, but I know that a chemistry setup doesn’t require some kind of major industrial capacity, it requires a warehouse with some beekers setup. Again, I’m not just talking about beakers, I’m talking about infrastructure. Maybe Saddam had one guy in one warehouse with one beaker of VX. Hey, maybe I do, too. I’m still not going ready to admit the two things are equally possible. **Sam Stone** is right about confirmation bias, but when we’re dealing with the specific issue of Saddam’s WMD, I don’t think “he didn’t have them” and “we don’t know if he had them” are on equal footing. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/124 "2006-01-31T23:40:58Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Anyway, I wasn’t totally out of place regarding that particular issue, but you are correct, I didn’t reserve judgement. Well, you weren’t exactly being logical, either. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/125 "2006-01-31T23:46:18Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I’ve matured since then ;p > > Anyway, I wasn’t totally out of place regarding that particular issue, but you are correct, I didn’t reserve judgement. Now we need to get you past the point of equating Military personal to Terrorist. This bugs me on every level. I don’t like seeing Airman Doors, USAF insulted like this. You are saying our servicemen (you painted with the broad brush) as no better than terrorist. Of course I am ex-Navy and yet I never even shot a gun in my life. I guess I am as bad as firebombers and I was an agent of terror. :rolleyes: Jim ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/126 "2006-02-01T00:00:10Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Really? So who are you and administrative assistant for? Why do you have an inability to deal with arguments rather than the person? Your professed favorite presidential candidate, John McCain, concluded in the report I linked to that the Syria stuff is a bunch of baloney. Who is wrong, you or McCain? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/127 "2006-02-01T00:09:18Z")
Prime Minister Tony Blair, speech to UK Parliament, Tuesday March 18, 2003 "Mustard constituted an important part (about 70%) of Iraq’s CW arsenal … 550 mustard filled shells and up to 450 mustard filled aerial bombs unaccounted for … additional uncertainty with respect of 6526 aerial bombs, corresponding to approximately 1000 tonnes of agent, predominantly mustard. Based on unaccounted for growth media, Iraq’s potential production of anthrax could have been in the range of about 15,000 to 25,000 litres … Based on all the available evidence, the strong presumption is that about 10,000 litres of anthrax was not destroyed and may still exist." “I have never put our justification for action as regime change.” \* “And the possibility of the two coming together - of terrorist groups in possession of WMD, even of a so-called dirty radiological bomb is now, in my judgement, a real and present danger.” > **[Full text: Tony Blair's speech](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/mar/18/foreignpolicy.iraq1)** > > This is the text of prime minister Tony Blair's speech opening today's debate on the Iraq crisis in the house of Commons, as released by 10 Downing Street. \*sorry, couldn’t resist including that one! ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/128 "2006-02-01T00:15:52Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Prime Minister Tony Blair, speech to UK Parliament, Tuesday March 18, 2003 Tony Blair? Are you fucking kidding me? I’d sooner trust a statement from Sylvia Brown. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/129 "2006-02-01T00:19:47Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I’m putting this in the Pit because I’m quite sure that the debate is going to get really ugly over this. For a decent debate, you need two sides. The only person who thinks anything of this story is Clothahump, and he probably won’t be back. Also it won’t get ugly. There’s no evidence there were any WMDs, nor that there was the capability to produce them. > [@Clothahump](#): > > It appears that all the folks that have been screaming “Bush lied - people died” and stuff like that might have to eat their words. It only ‘appears’ that way to you! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/130 "2006-02-01T00:28:08Z")
Congratulations, **Clothahump** , on yet another shit-and-run. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/131 "2006-02-01T00:32:19Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Tony Blair? Are you fucking kidding me? I’d sooner trust a statement from Sylvia Brown. I’m not quite sure how to take this. I posted Blair’s speech because he was the leader of the closest ally to the US, tried hard to get a UN resolution making the war legal and was presumably privy to the US information about WMD’s. In Clothahump’s world, Blair is an impeccable source of information. Therefore there were thousands of chemical shells and bombs, plus a nuclear weapon in Iraq in March 2003. Where did they go?! ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/132 "2006-02-01T00:35:30Z")
> [@glee](#): > > In Clothahump’s world, Blair is an impeccable source of information. Therefore there were thousands of chemical shells and bombs, plus a nuclear weapon in Iraq in March 2003. Phew! For a second there, I thought you’d lost your mind. But all’s right with the world now. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/133 "2006-02-01T01:24:44Z")
If there were WMDs, and if we went to war because of it, and yet didn’t keep them from being moved to Syria, then we’re even bigger losers than before. I tell ya, choosing between being led by liars or led by incompetents is damned hard. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/134 "2006-02-01T01:27:01Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Why do you do this to yourself, **Clothahump**? I theorize that he’s kind of an internet masochist, he enjoys getting smacked around in the BBQ Pit. I mean, he can’t really be so stupid as to not have immediately realized his cite was very weak? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/135 "2006-02-01T01:49:59Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > We are ALL more likely to believe that which validates our preconceived notions, and disbelieve that which conflicts with them. Some of us in accordance with the evidence, and some of us, like you and **mswas** , \*despite \* it. It is NOT just “human nature”, although it certainly appears to be _your_ nature. > [@](#): > > There have been plenty of kooky left-wing conspiracies that have been swallowed hook, line, and sinker by the very people on this board who are demanding hard evidence before believing anything that might prop up Bush’s claims. For example? Or more of your baseless, self-excusing, ad hominem bullshit? > [@](#): > > I am surprised that there seems to be no answer to WHY all the various intelligence agencies believed Saddam had WMD when he apparently didn’t. Have you been paying no attention at all? You are simply lying by saying “they all believed it” when you know how the information was filtered, how any information to the contrary was simply ignored, how an entire new agency was set up to tell the Administration what it wanted to hear. No, that’s more than simple confirmation bias on your part. It’s simple obstinacy, simple disconnect with the world of reality. > [@](#): > > \Some of the evidence Colin Powell presented STILL looks compelling. To those with solid, religious faith in the justification of the war you still urge on, and still urge others to die for, maybe. But to those assessing his claim’s factuality, no. Facts do exist outside confirmation bias. Outside your own desire for the blood whose spilling you still cheer on (as long as it isn’t your own), no, the facts do not exist and never did. > [@](#): > > Also, remember that at the start of the war, as the U.S. military was accepting surrenders from Iraqi units, the Iraqi generals themselves were telling the Americans that they thought they had WMD. Odd that they couldn’t direct the US troops to any of it, then, innit? Not so odd that they’d be telling their captors what they wanted to hear. > [@](#): > > If Saddam’s own generals believed their own army had WMD, then again, what the hell? You just finished saying they _didn’t_ know. Yet you’re pointing to that story as evidence to the contrary. How do you stand up straight, with both legs running in opposite directions? > [@](#): > > Saddam’s behaviour before the war was entirely consistent with someone hiding WMD. Or with someone whose hold on power depended on making people \*believe \* he had them. > [@](#): > > Many intelligence agencies, including the Germans, the Russians, the French, and the Brits believed that he had them. You’re still lying. > [@](#): > > It’s a big mystery. Even a fascinating one. Only to those wanting to construct a world that fits their preconceptions, instead of one based on the facts. It isn’t a mystery at all to most of us. > [@](#): > > And these questions have never been answered satisfactorily. Nor do they need to be, now that we know the fact to be that he didn’t have them at all. Have you ever seriously considered that to be a possibility? Ever? > [@](#): > > The problem is that no one really wants to find out. Again a lie. Most of us _do_ want to know the facts, and are _not_ afraid to be proven wrong if that’s what the facts say. YOU may not be psychologically able to accept being wrong, though > [@](#): > > The left is happy to just fall back on “Bush lied”. No, apparently you haven’t been paying attention, nor are indeed interested in it. Go back to claiming moral superiority for Canadians, eh? > [@](#): > > The right doesn’t necessarily want to know, because they don’t want to find out if the answer was, “They were never there and a blind monkey should have known it”. Do you admit that describes you? > [@](#): > > The intelligence services would probably like this monumental screw-up to just go away. That is a gross slander of dedicated career professionals. Those who told them what to say, and you cheerleaders, certainly may have that motivation, however. > [@](#): > > So this huge, fascinating question goes unanswered. You don’t have to drink, but don’t deny you’ve been led to the water. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/136 "2006-02-01T01:51:37Z")
General Georges Sada is just a liar who is hawking his book. O won’t believe any of it unles and until the WMD are actually found and inventoried by an inde;endent group that has no agenda, and put on TV all over the world, live. As for withholding judgement, forget it. I’ve heard enough bullshit over the years to know it just by the smell. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/137 "2006-02-01T02:14:15Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I’ve heard enough bullshit over the years to know it just by the smell. You can smell a sound? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/138 "2006-02-01T02:44:13Z")
Iraqi WMDs in Syria? Does that mean it’s time to invade Syria? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/139 "2006-02-01T02:44:43Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > You can smell a sound? Pull my finger. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365/140 "2006-02-01T02:49:00Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > You can smell a sound? No, he can hear scents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-interesting-saddam-really-did-have-wmds/342365.md?page=8)