# This is NOT a fair world, you conservative fools. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 2, 2017, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707 "2017-05-02T11:02:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/21 "2017-05-02T14:46:33Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I’m surrounded by good people who have done things right- or done nothing at all- yet have ended up in the hospital or worse. My grandmother had breast cancer. Never smoked, not obese- the doctor said " well, if a woman lives long enough she will eventually get this kind." my husband was born with defects severe enough he spent the first several years of his life getting surgeries and essentially growing up in the hospital corridors. His daughter landed in the hospital for the first of many surgeries at 15. A friend of mine from high school has a 12 year son who has been fighting leukemia for 4 years now. > > Who the fuck gets to decide which of these people are deserving of affordable health care? Assholes like Shodan. God forbid anyone who likes red meat or struggles with addiction or makes less than $XX,000 a year or is born into a family that struggles with poverty gets to have access to quality healthcare in the richest nation in the history of mankind. You have to fucking earn mercy in his world, you fucking bleeding heart pussies, and every policy has to be profitable. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/22 "2017-05-02T14:47:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can’t speak for Shodan, but I object to this charge. You cannot invoke religious teachings only when they are consonant with your desired outcomes and reject them when they are not. Your side demands a secular government, and are furious when religion is offered up as a reason for public policy. > > Can’t have it both ways: I again don’t speak for Shodan, but if you want to accept the Church’s teachings on abortion as sound public policy I’ll get behind applying the Church’s teachings on medical issues as sound policy also. > > But you cannot demand that your opponents agree that the public purse succors the afflicted in the doctor’s office because the Bible says to, and then angrily deride them for pointing out that “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you,” is also in the Bible. I have no idea if **Shodan** claims to be a religious man. But if he does, and I am not, I think it’s perfectly fair to point out that his stupid and heartless post runs counter to the beliefs he professes to live by. That doesn’t mean I’m being hypocritical for supporting abortion rights. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/23 "2017-05-02T14:49:55Z")
Maybe. But we can certainly call them out on their blatant hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/24 "2017-05-02T14:52:02Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Boggle. Double boggle. > > One day, it might be her or someone about whom she cares. Well, it won’t be her. You don’t think Congress will threaten their own health care or insurance, do you? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/25 "2017-05-02T14:53:23Z")
JRDelirious: > [@](#): > > OK so the Representative’s view of the world, taken to its eventual conclusion, is that there would be no pooled health insurance so the healthy may choose to just not pay in at all. Heck, that pretty much describes ALL forms of insurance, not just health. What a moron this representative is. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/26 "2017-05-02T14:53:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can’t speak for Shodan, but I object to this charge. You cannot invoke religious teachings only when they are consonant with your desired outcomes and reject them when they are not. Your side demands a secular government, and are furious when religion is offered up as a reason for public policy. > > Can’t have it both ways: I again don’t speak for Shodan, but if you want to accept the Church’s teachings on abortion as sound public policy I’ll get behind applying the Church’s teachings on medical issues as sound policy also. > > But you cannot demand that your opponents agree that the public purse succors the afflicted in the doctor’s office because the Bible says to, and then angrily deride them for pointing out that “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you,” is also in the Bible. This. Do we want separation of church and state, or not? It reminds me of some people who would say, “America is \*not \*a Christian country, so stop opposing abortion and SSM,” but then when it came to responding to terrorism, would suddenly then turn around and say, “America should turn the other cheek and refrain from retaliating against an enemy, just like Scripture says!” ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/27 "2017-05-02T14:54:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But you cannot demand that your opponents agree that the public purse succors the afflicted in the doctor’s office because the Bible says to, and then angrily deride them for pointing out that “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you,” is also in the Bible. And yet, there are Christians who believe that life doesn’t end at birth. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/28 "2017-05-02T14:56:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > By this same logic, should car insurance not differentiate between drivers with a good record, and drivers whose record of behavior makes them more likely to be in a crash? But how would anyone really know whether someone’s disease was the result of their own recklessness versus a cruel act of God? Even conditions that are largely preventable can strike individuals whose only vice is being alive. In the last four months, two colleagues of mine have died from cancer. To my knowledge, neither one had a risky lifestyle. They were not overweight and they did not smoke. I’ve never been seriously sick or injured a day of my life, but I’m not arrogant enough to attribute this to me doing “everything right”. Because for one, I _don’t_ do everything right. And two, plenty of others do everything right and are plagued with acute and chronic conditions. Why does the GOP think we just let these people die or become homeless? ---
**Author:** ![Trafalgar\_Laura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trafalgar_laura/32/2907_2.png) [@Trafalgar\_Laura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trafalgar_Laura)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/29 "2017-05-02T14:59:13Z")
I’m not sure that saying “I think you are being hypocritical to your own professed beliefs” means the speaker must also follow those beliefs. Much less want to make them law. To add another anecdote to the pile, I was born with an inherited kidney disease and I’m a dialysis patient. I won’t say I’ve lived perfectly but I was diagnosed with the disease when I was 10. For me, this debate is far from academic. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/30 "2017-05-02T15:01:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can’t speak for Shodan, but I object to this charge. You cannot invoke religious teachings only when they are consonant with your desired outcomes and reject them when they are not. Your side demands a secular government, and are furious when religion is offered up as a reason for public policy. > > Can’t have it both ways: I again don’t speak for Shodan, but if you want to accept the Church’s teachings on abortion as sound public policy I’ll get behind applying the Church’s teachings on medical issues as sound policy also. > > But you cannot demand that your opponents agree that the public purse succors the afflicted in the doctor’s office because the Bible says to, and then angrily deride them for pointing out that “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you,” is also in the Bible. It is perfectly consistent to believe that government policies should have secular rationales while criticizing those who believe differently of committing cafeteria religiosity. Your rebuttal misunderstands the argument it is addressing, which is either a charge of hypocrisy or a charge of insincerity. The hypocrisy charge version of the argument goes like this: If one asserts that all public policy should follow Christian teachings, one is a hypocrite is they pick and choose which public policies should. That argument is correct regardless of the view of the one asserting it. The insincerity charge version of the argument goes like this: If one asserts that only some public policy should follow Christian teachings but picks and choose which policies based on something other than Christian teachings, then the assertion of compulsion or motivation based on religion is insincere. That argument is correct regardless of the view of the one asserting it. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/31 "2017-05-02T15:04:20Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > We have a bit of false dichotomy here. > > Yes, some people become ill despite a healthy lifestyle. But at the same time, there’s no question that smoking, obesity, drinking etc. \*is \*more likely to lead to lung cancer, diabetes, cirrhosis, etc. > > By this same logic, should car insurance not differentiate between drivers with a good record, and drivers whose record of behavior makes them more likely to be in a crash? No, you’re misunderstanding the issue. Mo Brooks is claiming that people that aren’t in need of medical services don’t need it because they’re necessarily leading “good lives” and insinuating that people that do need medical services aren’t leading good lives. He wants people to pay higher prices not because they engage in bad habits, but because they need medical services regardless of what got them sick, including being born with an illness. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/32 "2017-05-02T15:07:06Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This. Do we want separation of church and state, or not? Better asked of your fellow conservatives who still want to restrict a woman’s right to choose, because CHRISTIAN BIBLE! > [@Velocity](#): > > It reminds me of some people who would say, “America is \*not \*a Christian country, so stop opposing abortion and SSM,” but then when it came to responding to terrorism, would suddenly then turn around and say, “America should turn the other cheek and refrain from retaliating against an enemy, just like Scripture says!” So no such thing as [Christian Pacifism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_pacifism)? Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/33 "2017-05-02T15:08:34Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This. Do we want separation of church and state, or not? > It reminds me of some people who would say, “America is \*not \*a Christian country, so stop opposing abortion and SSM,” but then when it came to responding to terrorism, would suddenly then turn around and say, “America should turn the other cheek and refrain from retaliating against an enemy, just like Scripture says!” As I pointed before, the task of agnostics, secularists and unbelievers is not to eliminate an item that has been with us virtually forever. So religion will be with us for a long time. However, our task is however to demand that any faith does remain benevolent. That indeed included telling the religious leaders in Salem to cut that stupid nonsense of killing people that were for sure innocent of witchcraft. And so it goes to demand that the state stop stupid nonsense like this that actually kills women: > **[Ireland's abortion problem: new report lays bare the horrifying truth](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11660028/Irelands-abortion-problem-New-report-lays-bare-the-horrifying-truth.html)** > > A new in-depth Amnesty International study reveals at least 4,000 women are forced to leave Ireland for abortions each year, with many resorting to dangerous DIY options. Radhika Sanghani reports ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/34 "2017-05-02T15:09:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can’t speak for Shodan, but I object to this charge. You cannot invoke religious teachings only when they are consonant with your desired outcomes and reject them when they are not. Dude, your “side” does just this. Shodan does this to a T. > [@](#): > > Your side demands a secular government, and are furious when religion is offered up as a reason for public policy. Your side actually \*claims \*the mantle of the “Christian” side! I’m merely pointing out the hypocrisy here. You can have fully secular government, and still advocate for the poor, the sick, the unborn, the refugee, the immigrant, the prisoner…you know the things Jesus told us to do. > [@](#): > > Can’t have it both ways: I again don’t speak for Shodan, but if you want to accept the Church’s teachings on abortion as sound public policy I’ll get behind applying the Church’s teachings on medical issues as sound policy also. > > But you cannot demand that your opponents agree that the public purse succors the afflicted in the doctor’s office because the Bible says to, and then angrily deride them for pointing out that “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you,” is also in the Bible. So why does “your side” advocate for the Biblical when it comes to the unborn, but ignore everything else in the Bible when it comes to caring for the poor, immigrant, sick, etc. I don’t angrily deride them for pointing out what’s in the Bible, I angrily deride them for being hypocrites, picking and choosing what they support, and attempting to discriminate based on-- well, take your pick (wealth, nation of origin, sexual orientation, gender, religion). I can’t speak for the Democratic platform. I speak as a Christian liberal. That’s “my side.” I go to church weekly, and I advocate for less abortion through public policies that support the mother, family, babies, children, the sick, the poor, the immigrant, the refugee, the worker, etc. I do think abortion is bad, for Biblical reasons, but I don’t choose to ignore everything else the Bible says about caring for the poor, sick, loving your neighbor, grace, mercy, Imago Dei… ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/35 "2017-05-02T15:21:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I can’t speak for Shodan, but I object to this charge. You cannot invoke religious teachings only when they are consonant with your desired outcomes and reject them when they are not. Your side demands a secular government, and are furious when religion is offered up as a reason for public policy. > > Can’t have it both ways: I again don’t speak for Shodan, but if you want to accept the Church’s teachings on abortion as sound public policy I’ll get behind applying the Church’s teachings on medical issues as sound policy also. > > But you cannot demand that your opponents agree that the public purse succors the afflicted in the doctor’s office because the Bible says to, and then angrily deride them for pointing out that “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you,” is also in the Bible. **Bricker** accuses a liberal of hypocrisy. It must be a day ending in a “y”. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/36 "2017-05-02T15:24:14Z")
So only fellow Christians can point out Christian hypocrisy? Does that apply to all forms of hypocrisy? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/37 "2017-05-02T15:24:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > It’s amazing how so many politicians from the Republican Party, which claims to understand business so much better than us dumb libtards, don’t have the first fucking clue how insurance works. Yeah, I mean automobile insurance companies are required by law to sell you insurance even if your car is known to have safety problems like broken brakes. And I don’t know about you, but my insurance covers all routine maintenance as well! Seriously, though, both side are screwed up on this whole insurance paradigm. You generally don’t buy insurance for things that you know you have to do or for things you know are broken. Your home insurance doesn’t cover re-painting your house or mowing your lawn or refinishing your floors. Those are things every homeowner has to do at some point or another. We’re cramming all of “healthcare” into an insurance model, and so we end up with some screwy situations that don’t really fit into that model. A single pay program makes much more sense, although it’s just not feasible, politically, in the US (at least at the federal level). ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/38 "2017-05-02T15:33:29Z")
I’ll never understand the uniquely American aversion to UHC. Having a well-cared, healthy, population is like having paved roads, a fire department, a functional judiciary, a system of government, an educational system, etc. It objectively makes **everyones’** lives better in quality and longer in length. And it’s cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/39 "2017-05-02T15:34:18Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > but I don’t choose to ignore everything else the Bible says about caring for the poor, sick, loving your neighbor, grace, mercy, Imago Dei… Choosing to follow your interpretation of the Bible isn’t the same as forcing others to do so through legislation. I don’t find it hypocritical to be against forcing people to care for others and still do so yourself because your holy book teaches you to. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707/40 "2017-05-02T15:35:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, I mean automobile insurance companies are required by law to sell you insurance even if your car is known to have safety problems like broken brakes. And I don’t know about you, but my insurance covers all routine maintenance as well! > > Seriously, though, both side are screwed up on this whole insurance paradigm. You generally don’t buy insurance for things that you know you have to do or for things you know are broken. Your home insurance doesn’t cover re-painting your house or mowing your lawn or refinishing your floors. Those are things every homeowner has to do at some point or another. We’re cramming all of “healthcare” into an insurance model, and so we end up with some screwy situations that don’t really fit into that model. A single pay program makes much more sense, although it’s just not feasible, politically, in the US (at least at the federal level). Those things are not alive. They are not subject to random RNA sequencing or viral infection. They don’t walk down the street and trip over a curb. They aren’t tasked to drive/walk/commute to work every day to support themselves, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-not-a-fair-world-you-conservative-fools/785707.md?page=3)