# This is one reason I try and buy from Sinclair **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 19, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650 "2010-10-19T13:32:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/21 "2010-10-19T19:38:45Z")
Some mainstream group of Baptists [hard to keep track of all of them] actually had the same statement regarding wife beating up for consideration as part of church doctrine here in the states around a decade ago. It got some publicity and outcry and the statement was quietly buried. It’s the O.T. og [the genocidal/joker one] who thought it would be a good idea. So just don’t carp about the UAE or whichever old-tyme religion revives the women beat-down thing. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/22 "2010-10-19T21:25:16Z")
> [@Omegaman](#): > > I’ve always used them because I heard they don’t get their oil from the mid east. > > Perhaps I’m mistaken. Everyone gets oil from wherever is cheapest. Anything else is marketing. Why? Because if they don’t, it would be massively irresponsible to shareholders and the people in charge would be replaced by someone who knows what the term ‘profit margin’ means. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/23 "2010-10-20T04:51:21Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Everyone gets oil from wherever is cheapest. Anything else is marketing. > > Why? Because if they don’t, it would be massively irresponsible to shareholders and the people in charge would be replaced by someone who knows what the term ‘profit margin’ means. Not if the shareholders all agree that something is important enough to them that they will or won’t conduct the company’s business accordingly. Not every single person on earth is willing to sacrifice morals and/or ethics for the sake of profit at all times, ya know. ---
**Author:** ![SpaceDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spacedog/32/9932_2.png) [@SpaceDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceDog)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/24 "2010-10-20T13:58:46Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Not if the shareholders all agree that something is important enough to them that they will or won’t conduct the company’s business accordingly. > > Not every single person on earth is willing to sacrifice morals and/or ethics for the sake of profit at all times, ya know. True. But the people and companies that own shares are typically in it for the money. Finding a large enough bunch of shareholders to back a non-best cost solution without some tangible other upside from them would be difficult in the short term and almost impossible to maintain it the long term. Almost impossible. SD ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/25 "2010-10-20T19:39:00Z")
So it is kinda like the US enhanced interrogation model? All is okay if no permanent marks are left? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/26 "2010-10-20T20:50:34Z")
> [@SpaceDog](#): > > True. But the people and companies that own shares are typically in it for the money. Finding a large enough bunch of shareholders to back a non-best cost solution without some tangible other upside from them would be difficult in the short term and almost impossible to maintain it the long term. Unless you can show me an entire portfolio full of companies that use literal slave labor, I’m pretty sure you’re a moron who’s full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/27 "2010-10-20T21:48:06Z")
That doesn’t make any sense at all. You need to spend more time on comprehension and less time on reprehension. ---
**Author:** ![SpaceDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spacedog/32/9932_2.png) [@SpaceDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceDog)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/28 "2010-10-21T05:15:30Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Unless you can show me an entire portfolio full of companies that use literal slave labor, I’m pretty sure you’re a moron who’s full of shit. I may be a moron, in fact it’s likely. Particularly because I can’t understand what the fuck you’re trying to say here. First, I doubt there are any companies using literal slave labour – but I’m sure there’s a few that have parts made in dubious factories with poor conditions and worse pay. Heard of Foxcomm? The reports of the conditions there haven’t really made a dent in Apple’s share price. Where are all the ethical shareholders deserting Apple and Dell. Oh, they aren’t. Because Apple make a metric fuckton of money. And the majority of shares are owned by pension funds, management companies and other entities who don’t give a fuck. Until consumers start boycotting Apple and it hits their bottom line. Which isn’t likely either given Apples continuous production of shiny things which ridiculous mark-ups. Sure, there’s a few people probably ditched their shares but as long as a company’s stock is going up there’ll be a lot more that are buying into it. My pension fund is invested in the stock market, I have no idea what stocks are actually owned. And there’s very little I can do about it unless I take control of buying individual stocks myself, which with my record is just going to leave me with less pension than the other options. Maybe I should care. I’d honestly never considered it until this thread. Probably like 99% of the other morons out there. Your faith in humanity is touching. Unbelievably stupidly fucking wrong in this case. But touching. SD ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/29 "2010-10-21T05:35:08Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > The largest seller of oil to the US is… wait for it… Canada. Admittedly, a lot of that is tar sands oil, which has its own problems, but they don’t include torture. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > As far as we know. AFAIK, Canadians only beat red-headed stepchilden. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/30 "2010-10-21T18:56:10Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > That doesn’t make any sense at all. Sure it does. The absolute cheapest form of labor is slave labor. Accordingly, every company should be using it, and everyone should be investing in those companies. If that’s not the case, it’s safe to say that there are some ethical lines that people are unwilling to cross in the pursuit of profits, and that those lines will vary from person to person and from company to company. > [@SpaceDog](#): > > Your faith in humanity is touching. Haaaaaaahahaha. I have no faith in humanity. I think the world would be better off if a lot of it were to drop dead right now. However, I \*do \*think that there is a small but viable population of what I will call “ethical investors”–people who research the companies they invest in to ensure that the companies’ business practices align with their own standards. What, exactly, those standards are will vary from person to person, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Just because you, personally, have the investment goal of making the most possible money regardless of how the company is making it doesn’t mean that every other investor does. Some of them are willing to take an income hit in exchange for supporting what they see as ethical business practices, which includes the sourcing of their goods. You might as well claim that non-factory farms don’t exist because it’s the cheapest way of producing meat, so nobody would buy anything else. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/31 "2010-10-21T21:40:27Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Sure it does. The absolute cheapest form of labor is slave labor. Accordingly, every company should be using it, and everyone should be investing in those companies. If that’s not the case, it’s safe to say that there are some ethical lines that people are unwilling to cross in the pursuit of profits, and that those lines will vary from person to person and from company to company. Slavery is illegal. I’m pretty sure that’s in the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![may\_be\_ignorant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c5a1d2/32.png) [@may\_be\_ignorant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/may_be_ignorant)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/32 "2010-10-21T23:37:31Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Who or what is Sinclair? Wondering the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![SpaceDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spacedog/32/9932_2.png) [@SpaceDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceDog)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/33 "2010-10-22T00:35:01Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > However, I \*do \*think that there is a small but viable population of what I will call “ethical investors”–people who research the companies they invest in to ensure that the companies’ business practices align with their own standards. What, exactly, those standards are will vary from person to person, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. > [@](#): > > You might as well claim that non-factory farms don’t exist because it’s the cheapest way of producing meat, so nobody would buy anything else. :rolleyes: I never claimed there were no ethical investors, I’m just claiming that there aren’t enough of them to make that much of a difference. Because the majority of ‘real people’ investors are at least one step away from the actual stocks they own. And I’m talking about investors. Not consumers, consumers are different and they can have an impact on a companies practices (although oil is bad example just because is so vital to just about everything). Consumers and public opinion, not investors, are the best way to affect a change in a company. Investors tend to be biased for the reasons I’ve explained above and for the fact that _the majority – not all –_ investors tend to be people interested in making money. That’s why they’re investors. However we’re all consumers. I shop with at least a mild notion of ethics. Investment, not so much. SD ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/34 "2010-10-22T00:45:04Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Sure it does. The absolute cheapest form of labor is slave labor. Cite? I doubt that slave labor is cheaper than sweatshop labor. For one thing, you have to feed slaves, and ensure they have enough healthcare to justify your investments. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/35 "2010-10-22T16:26:59Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > Slavery is illegal. I’m pretty sure that’s in the Constitution. It’s also illegal in the U.S. for “a man [to] beat his wife and young children as long as the beating leaves no physical marks.” We’re not talking about what’s legal in the U.S. We’re talking about what companies do _in other countries_. It may shock you to realize that it \*is \*possible to invest in companies that do not solely employ people in the U.S. > [@SpaceDog](#): > > I never claimed there were no ethical investors, I’m just claiming that there aren’t enough of them to make that much of a difference. Because the majority of ‘real people’ investors are at least one step away from the actual stocks they own. Right now, we’re WAGing at each other. But I know people who make their investment decisions this way. Obviously, it’s becoming more common for people to make their investments, e.g., 401(k) accounts, through a variety of mutual funds instead of handpicking stocks. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t still people who do it. Oh, look, there’s even [a fucking Wikipedia article on the subject](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socially_responsible_investing). Idiot. > [@](#): > > And I’m talking about investors. So am I. Did you see the word “consumers” anywhere in my post? The fact that you’re claiming that this “can’t” happen \*in the face of a company who does it \*is laughable. > [@Derleth](#): > > Cite? I doubt that slave labor is cheaper than sweatshop labor. For one thing, you have to feed slaves, and ensure they have enough healthcare to justify your investments. My cite is the American South prior to the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/36 "2010-10-22T21:14:16Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > My cite is the American South prior to the Civil War. So, your cite is a largely pre-industrial economy and society explicitly based on the concept of slavery as a strong positive good for both the white and black races. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/37 "2010-10-24T03:16:08Z")
Try and Buy? Is that like the Pick ‘n’ Save? ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/38 "2010-10-24T08:59:54Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Still, where can you get a system with a mylar keyboard these days? It’s been decades and I \*still \*can’t get used to these modern keyboards with their bouncy keys, all separate and springy and tactile… Showing my age I’m sure but this was my exact thought when I saw the tread title… ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/39 "2010-10-25T14:02:58Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > So, your cite is a largely pre-industrial economy and society explicitly based on the concept of slavery as a strong positive good for both the white and black races. Are you retarded? Nobody said it was good for the _slaves_–simply the cheapest labor you can get, once you’re past the initial investment hump. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650/40 "2010-10-25T18:56:10Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > The largest seller of oil to the US is… wait for it… Canada. Why those damn toque-headed walrus-jockeys! :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-one-reason-i-try-and-buy-from-sinclair/557650.md?page=1)