# This is parody, right? (Meme about extreme libertarianism) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 14, 2024, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554 "2024-02-14T16:35:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/1 "2024-02-14T16:35:50Z")
This has been on my Twitter feed a lot of late, being justifiably mocked. I’m assuming it is meant to be from anarcho-capitalists of some kind. But it’s not right? It’s got to be a parody? The people critiquing it are just falling for [Poes law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law)? > I mean this BS makes regular anarchists and their theories about what will happen when we abolish the nasty government and its monopoly on violence, look positively sane in comparison. It’s as least as ridiculously implausible as regular anarchist ideas about a lovely utopia of loosely federated cooperatives managing their own affairs in a consensual manner, only this proposed future sounds goddamn awful. Surely no one would seriously propose that as a platonic ideal society, its positively dystopian, basically taking the worst bits of Mad Max and corporate arbitration. Who takes part in corporate arbitration and thinks, “This is awesome! All society human should work like this.” FFS Edit: Direct image link for those Twitter averse: [[Album] imgur.com ![](https://i.imgur.com/vuNmc72.jpeg?fb "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/a/qda8XZJ) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/2 "2024-02-14T17:01:06Z")
Of course it’s stupid: - What happens to people who can’t afford or simply don’t wish to subscribe to a “protection company”? - Do all protection companies contract to enforce the same rights to body and property? - What if ADT and Ring crunch the numbers and determine the cost of war is reasonable? - By what criteria or framework does Amazing Adjudications make their rulings if there is no government and presumably by extension no laws or legislature? - By what mechanism does Amazing Adjudications enforce their rulings? - What prevents the creation of “protection companies” that exist simply to protect their client’s assets, regardless of how some external party rules. I’m not really sure what societal problem this is supposed to “solve”, other than it appeals to some basic notion “government is bad”. But it clearly does introduce some big problems, particularly in creating a sort “might (or money) makes right” form of legislation and enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/3 "2024-02-14T17:07:44Z")
Possibly, but more probably not. Especially given the Twitter handle of “YoungCapitalists”. It’s very much in keeping with certain brands of HyperLibertarianism and HyperCapitalism I’ve seen online, and in fiction drawing on those conclusions. Trying to give my interpretation of these beliefs (I don’t share them) comes from the assumption that Government has NO role in a society other than enforcing contracts - BUT smart, hip businessmen and citizens don’t even need that, they can manage it by themselves. (feel free to add bleeding sarcasm to most of this and the following). So in such an “enlightened” society, individuals buy everything they want/need on the open market, without the parasitic cost of government. You have the police/security, education, health care, fire protection, etc that you can afford, along with what boils down to extensive umbrella-style insurance policies that protect you if you infringe on someone else. So a world of corporate proliferation, and hyperlitigation, in which everything is settled by lawyers, armed forces, and armed lawyers in endless chains of lawsuits. Which, if everything ran as _cleanly_ as in the example you cited, means it -looks- pretty much the same to you, the citizen, as it does right now. But of course, it takes our existing system (in the USA at least) of getting all the justice you can AFFORD and turns it up to 11. 🙄 Similarly, it can lead to another (dystopian, as you rightly point out) extreme common in the Cyberpunk and other related genres: de facto or de jure Corporate states. You work for (may even be born into!) a corporation, which has provides everything for you - education et al above, and in turn they control just about every facet of your life, giving complete adequacy, comfort or even luxury depending on your skills/status, but with minimal if any freedom. Or you’re -outside- the system (through birth, your own choices, abandonment, etc) and you only have the services you can personally pay for on a case by case basis. Which, in said genres, is pretty much nothing. You go to a doctor, you pay it all. Need cops? Sorry, you’re not a policy holder. And so on and so forth. But, and back to the quotes in the OP, if you imagine you’re one of the smart ones, who will thrive in such a system and assume that the magical hand of the free market will result in costs lower than you’re paying in (gasp!) taxes/benefits, then this seems like a magical world where you get more, and better benefits while paying less out of pocket. ETA - note, I’m not on Xitter, and not backtracking the original poster of the Xit. The -specific individual- may be parodying (down to the name) the sentiments above, but the sentiments are not uncommon among the philosophy above and taken very seriously by those who hold them. ETA2 - since this is the Pit, you may be self-selecting for a more limited number of reviewers, as many quality posters have muted this forum. But other than some minor bitching, it’s not particularly rant-like, so you may be able to clean it a smidge and post it in another forum as well. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/4 "2024-02-14T17:17:46Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > What happens to people who can’t afford or simply don’t wish to subscribe to a “protection company”? They would be slaves to the wealthy. I think for some, this is a feature. ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/5 "2024-02-14T17:21:48Z")
It looks a lot like your system of health insurance. Wouldn’t this private law run prices up too? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/6 "2024-02-14T17:22:10Z")
I see no manner in which such a system could go awry. Of course, I’ll be paying my protection money to a proper mafia who knows how to take care of business, not some corpo lightweights. Hmm, who would be better at enforcing my rights, ADT or Al Capone? I’ll go with an organization with actual enforcers, thanks. Sure, they’ll be bleeding me dry paying them protection, but that’s another matter. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/7 "2024-02-14T17:23:11Z")
> [@Mikkel](#): > > Wouldn’t this private law run prices up too? That’s also a feature. A few folks will make lots of profit! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/8 "2024-02-14T17:24:15Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > I’ll go with an organization with actual enforcers, thanks. “You send one of mine to the hospital? I’ll send one of yours to the morgue!” ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/9 "2024-02-14T17:24:44Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > I’ll go with an organization with actual enforcers, Imortan Joe has no time for your corporate arbitration framework ![](https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExdWFqOTd6ZmUwcjRxMm1ldTk0dXo3NjVqMGpuZ2YycWdpbTZlemU0byZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/T0ms0gusVzCVy/giphy.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/10 "2024-02-14T17:30:13Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > By what mechanism does Amazing Adjudications enforce their rulings? And where does a litigant challenge those rulings? Amazing Appeals? (ETA: if it’s a final and binding arbitration, why call it a “trial” in a “private court”?) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/11 "2024-02-14T17:34:59Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Similarly, it can lead to another (dystopian, as you rightly point out) extreme common in the Cyberpunk and other related genres: de facto or de jure Corporate states. You work for (may even be born into!) a corporation, which has provides everything for you - education et al above, and in turn they control just about every facet of your life, giving complete adequacy, comfort or even luxury depending on your skills/status, but with minimal if any freedom. This is exactly what I was thinking. It looked very much like a Cyberpunk/Shadowrun/etc. future dystopian fan fiction thing. It’s a common trope for certain near-future neo-noir science fiction settings. The concept of “megacorps” running things and taking over the role of government. It’s essentially a form of feudalism. The thing is that it’s taken for granted that such things **are** a dystopia, and it shouldn’t be something that people should look forward to. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/12 "2024-02-14T17:36:24Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It’s a common trope for certain near-future neo-noir science fiction settings. **Marty** : "Within two hours of his arrest, Martin McFly, Jr. was tried, convicted and sentenced to fifteen years in the state penitentiary.” Within _two hours_? **Doc** : The justice system works swiftly in the future now that they’ve abolished all lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/13 "2024-02-14T17:38:59Z")
This form of government has been implemented many times. For example, replace ADT with “the Crips”, Ring with “the Bloods” and “Amazing Ajudication” with “Glok 9mm” and you have the system of portions of East LA in the 80’s. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/14 "2024-02-14T17:39:46Z")
Haha, yes, the impression I got there was that the government was still intact but without lawyers the law was streamlined. Of course, it only takes a brief moment of thought to realize why that wouldn’t work, but it was just a general jab at how much people universally dislike lawyers. Like a joke about how bad airplane food is. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/15 "2024-02-14T17:43:39Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > This form of government has been implemented many times. Or: [Weregild - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weregild) (Note the entry at the bottom for “Non-prospering Welshman” 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/16 "2024-02-14T17:48:49Z")
Some people just think they’d come out ahead in such an arrangement so they advocate for it. Ignoring, of course, what happened to their analogues throughout pretty much all of human history. The real winners through history, unlike these wannabe clowns, already knew that the absence of government was actually really bad for their own personal prosperity. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > This form of government has been implemented many times. For example, replace ADT with “the Crips”, Hell, just give the CEOs this newly made job title - “King”, declare they run things by the Divine Right of Shareholders, put the vassals…err customers under regional Lord-Directors. Why reinvent the wheel? Of course, subscription fees to the “Kingdom, LLC” may be higher than they expect. And compulsory. Or else ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/17 "2024-02-14T17:51:42Z")
As usual @Atamasama and I are on similar wavelengths, but for a certain political/philosophical view, everyone will -totally- be on board with hyper-capitalism, and as long as those strong free spirits (choke, wheeze, too much sarcasm!) prevent their beloved system from being overrun by free-ride seeking parasites (good, I’m bleeding out my eyes from having to type some of this) said societies will always prevail. A couple of fictional versions I’ve read: > **[Pallas](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/1844268)** > > True to his namesake, Emerson Ngu follows the way of in… > **[Freehold (Freehold #1)](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/700604.Freehold)** > > Sergeant Kendra Pacelli is innocent, but that doesn't m… It absolutely works better in fiction. And even then… well, it turns to shit if everyone doesn’t agree to follow the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/18 "2024-02-14T18:29:35Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It’s a common trope for certain near-future neo-noir science fiction settings. The concept of “megacorps” running things and taking over the role of government. The novel _Jennifer Government_ takes this idea, pumps it up on conceptual steroids, and uses that as the basis for _Brazil_-esque dark comedy. Not a perfect book, but worth reading. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/19 "2024-02-14T18:31:20Z")
Seems to me a variant on > **[Snow Crash](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash)** > > Snow Crash is a science fiction novel by the American writer Neal Stephenson, published in 1992. Like many of Stephenson's novels, its themes include history, linguistics, anthropology, archaeology, religion, computer science, politics, cryptography, memetics, and philosophy. > In his 1999 essay "In the Beginning... Was the Command Line", Stephenson explained the title of the novel as his term for a particular software failure mode on the early Macintosh computer. Stephenson wrote about the Macint... ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554/20 "2024-02-14T18:35:27Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > The novel _Jennifer Government_ takes this idea, pumps it up on conceptual steroids, and uses that as the basis for _Brazil_-esque dark comedy. Not a perfect book, but worth reading. I’ve read it. You might also try Frederick Pohl and Cyril M. Kornbluth’s _The Space Merchants_ (and its sequel, _The Merchants’ War_), which \*Jennifer Government spurns as unrealistic. \* [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-parody-right-meme-about-extreme-libertarianism/997554.md?page=2)