# This is so a war on Islam - just not by the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2001, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-a-war-on-islam-just-not-by-the-u-s/85109 "2001-10-03T02:42:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 2\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-a-war-on-islam-just-not-by-the-u-s/85109/21 "2001-10-03T21:16:52Z")
**Milossarian** : Eh, I’m with **Muslim Guy** on this. I think you have a good point and I really wish we were seeing the sort of things you suggest. The problem is, or at least part of the problem, is that ( as **London\_Calling** and others have suggested ), there really is an “us vs. them” mentality in that part of the world. We have seen this sort of thing before. In 1084 the Moorish kings of Badajoz and Seville invited the al-Mourabitun ( Almoravids ) of North Africa into Iberia rather than submit as vassals to Alfonso VI of Leon and Castille. The Muslim states of Iberia had intermittently been under the hand of Christian rulers for a few decades and the terms were not harsh. The treatment the elegant, literate, sophisticated Moorish states were likely to receive at the hands of the fanatical, funadamentalist al-Mourabitun, was almost certain to be far worse. Many were opposed to this grave decision - The Emir of Seville’s son begged him not to do it. But in the name of the independance of his religion he gritted his teeth and invited in these brutal “allies”. The situation now is not an exact parallel, really. But to _many_ in the Middle East, I think it _looks_ like an exact parallel. No Islamic power has stood as an equal of the West ( we’ll grant a very partial and local exception for secular Turkey ) since the early 18th century. Muslims have grown up knowing the stories of their glorious past history on top, convinced of the superiority of their relationship with God and acutely aware of their current status closer to the bottom. Just another collection of third-world countries, with a few isolated leverages ( like oil ). To many the West, rightly or wrongly, is perceived a generic imperial bully, dictating arrogantly from on top an Ivory Tower of wealth and military might. Given that resentment, it is not surprising that there is a tendency to close ranks. Many Muslim clerics might privately disagree with the atrocities committed by al-Qaeda. But they can’t bring themselves to hold press conferences and denounce them. Either out of internal conflicts of the highest order ( “I believe my culture is at stake and at least these awful thugs are putting the Western colossus back on its heels” ) or just plain peer-pressure as **Muslim Guy** pointed out. And that damned Israel issue just continues to confound things, as it causes all these dumbfuck equivocations ( “Suicide bombing is abhorrent, _except_ in the case of Israel, because…”). I think it is a terribly, terribly sad situation. And I don’t know what the answer is. But part of it must be, at least, too continue a consistent program of courting these moderate clerics in the hope that more ( like the one **Muslim Guy** cited ) will speak out in the future. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![tradesilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tradesilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tradesilicon)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2001, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-a-war-on-islam-just-not-by-the-u-s/85109/22 "2001-10-03T21:39:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milossarian \* > [BTrue; but my point was, there is a war being waged against Islam _by_ Osama bin Laden, and perverters of the religion like him. \*\* Fair enough Milossarian, I understand that point, and I won’t venture to answer for Muslims wether they believe bin Laden or anyone following him are perverting Islam - I can guess they think so based on what I’ve heard. But I thought there was a strong call for Muslims in particular to stand up and stamp out this infestation, and I’m just saying that with or without popular Muslim support it must be done, with being much preferred. I don’t disagree with any of the sentiments in the OP, just that those sentiments are not all-important in what comes next. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-a-war-on-islam-just-not-by-the-u-s/85109.md?page=1)