# This is so incredibly assholish, I was certain it was an urban legend. It wasn't. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 12, 2002, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404 "2002-11-12T07:07:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/1 "2002-11-12T07:07:33Z")
This sordid tale can be found in more detail at the Ernie’s House of Whoop-Ass site. [www.ehowa.com/home.html](http://www.ehowa.com/home.html) Scroll down to the story headed, “Sometimes Sorry Just Doesn’t Cut It.” A cadet at the U.S. Air Force Academy sent an email to Peter Kristein, professor of history at Saint Xavier University in Chicago. The supposedly verbatim text is as follows: > [@](#): > > --------- Original Message --------------- > To: Peter Kristein > From: Cadet xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 13:16:20 -0700 > > Dear Sir or Ma’am, > > The Air Force Academy is going to be having our annual Academy Assembly. This is a forum for mainly but not only Political Science majors, discussing very important issues dealing with politics. Right now we are in the planning stage for advertising and we would appreciate your help in the follow areas. Do you know of or have any methods or ways for interschool advertising and or communications? What would be the best way for us to advertise at your school whether it is sending you the fliers and you making copies or by perhaps putting an advertisement in your local publication? We would appreciate your input and the cost of what you recommend. Thank you for your time and consideration. > > Very Respectfully > Cadet xxxxxxxxxxx The cadet whose name is removed got the following response from professor Kristein: > [@](#): > > -----Original Message----- > To: Cadet xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > From: Peter Kristein > Sent Thursday, October 31, 2002 146 PM > Subject: Re: Academy Assembly > > You are a disgrace to this country and I am furious you would even think I would support you and your aggressive baby killing tactics of collateral damage. Help you recruit. Who, top guns to reign death and destruction upon nonwhite peoples throughout the world? Are you serious sir? Resign your commission and serve your country with honour. > > No war, no air force cowards who bomb countries without AAA, without possibility of retaliation. You are worse than the snipers. You are imperialists who are turning the whole damn world against us. September 11 can be blamed in part for what you and your cohorts have done to the Palestinians, the VC, the Serbs, a retreating army at Basra. > > You are unworthy of my support. > > Peter Kristein > Professor of History > Saint Xavier University Is your bullshit detector going off? Mine was. But it’s real. That dumbfuck actually said that. As proof, you can attempt to send the good professor an email: kristein@sxu.edu. Several tens of thousands of other people apparently have, as word of this correspondence got out. You’ll get the following auto-reply: > [@](#): > > Due to considerable off-campus interest in a private correspondence with a military person, I am posting this. The situation has been resolved on a personal level with humility, mutual respect and friendliness. May nations also learn differences can be overcome, disagreements bridged and that peace and harmony are possible. > > I apologize for offending the countless men and women of the military who serve this nation with professionalism and dedication to their mission. I feel compelled to note something Ernie notes at his HOWA site: > [@](#): > > First off by noting the “private message” is a sly way of implying there was some breach of trust here. I don’t think so. Did he send it from his work account? Yes. Did he reply with “Professor of History” in his email footer? Yes. Was the original question posted to him in an official capacity because of his position? yes. Then guess what Jack, that wasn’t a private email; it was official correspondence. Not to mention if he didn’t want to be famous for his controversial views he shouldn’t have been so fucking anxious to share them. Not to mention that condescending, “let this be a lesson to you philistines” attitude. Uh, re-read your email, prof. You don’t get to walk the high road. By the way, take a look at this fucking dweeb: www.sxu.edu/academ/artsci/history/pkirstein/ Nice sweater. Here, we can read Kirstein’s apology, and the _amazingly_ classy acceptance from the Air Force folks, who actually express their regret that these emails are out there circulating in cyber-space. Somehow, Kirstein’s apology strikes me as a bit … lacking. “I should have written him in a more thoughtful and contemplative manner. As one who believes in non-violence and the avoidance of conflict, I could have been more circumspect and creative in my communication with him.” Does anyone else take that as more-or-less saying, “I still feel the exact way that I said, but I should have kept it to myself?” What these academia wackos, light-years out on the left and away from reality, never seem to understand is that their ability to have their ridiculous and asinine views is and always has been PRESERVED by the people they are so eager to spit on. I can rattle off at least a dozen countries where such a criticism of the military would have at the least landed him in jail, at the worst landed him tortured and pushing up daisies. Ah, America’s well-balanced world of academia. What benefits they must be passing along to our future leaders. P.S. Here’s an update, indicating the university is considering some kind of disciplinary action against the good professor. You may be surprised to hear that I don’t think the professor _should_ be disciplined - for his ridiculous viewpoints. He should, however, be disciplined for responding to a very innocent query in such a boorish manner, while serving in an official representative capacity for the university. Regardless of any political views he may have expressed. Happy Veterans Day, Professor Kristein. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/2 "2002-11-12T07:35:48Z")
> [@](#): > > What these academia wackos, light-years out on the left and away from reality, never seem to understand is that their ability to have their ridiculous and asinine views is and always has been PRESERVED by the people they are so eager to spit on. THESE academia whackos??? No, THIS academia whacko. I will agree that this nitwit should be figuratively tarred and feathered, but lets be mindful not to paint too many folks with a too wide brush. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/3 "2002-11-12T08:29:15Z")
BAN HISTORY! ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/4 "2002-11-12T09:02:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milossarian \* > **Does anyone else take that as more-or-less saying, "I still feel the exact way that I said, but I should have kept it to myself?"** What’s wrong with that? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/5 "2002-11-12T10:28:08Z")
From one of Milo’s links: > [@](#): > > “It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.” ~Father Dennis Edward O’Brien, Sergeant, USMC Krestein, you may now kiss my red ass. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/6 "2002-11-12T10:55:24Z")
Wow. There are ways to disagree, and there are ways to be an asshole. That guy is certainly number two. In both senses. Lib, I’m going to keep the quote for the next person who jumps on flag burners as being “unamerican”. Thanks for linking to it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/7 "2002-11-12T12:48:52Z")
Stop the presses! There’s an asshold teaching history at a school you’ve never heard of! AAAArrrrrooooooGA! Replace him with Dr. Gingrich at once! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/8 "2002-11-12T12:56:19Z")
I tell you what - I bet [this](http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/p.kirstein/) Professor Peter Kirstein is pretty pissed about his namesake’s behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/9 "2002-11-12T13:09:29Z")
For pete’s sake, is he tenured? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/10 "2002-11-12T13:38:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*Stop the presses! There’s an asshold teaching history at a school you’ve never heard of! AAAArrrrrooooooGA! Replace him with Dr. Gingrich at once! \*\* jesus christ… no one is calling for his head! Are we not allowed voice our disagreement about one person who does an extremely tacky and discourteous thing? regardless of my opinions about US foreign policy and interventions, he was out of line to explode at a cadet who was looking for information. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/11 "2002-11-12T13:50:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > **Wow. There are ways to disagree, and there are ways to be an asshole. That guy is certainly number two.** I don’t know about that, **TwistofFate**. Assholes generally know when to shut up and not expel shit everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/12 "2002-11-12T14:01:02Z")
Mostly, he should be disciplined for embarassing his university by being incoherent and illiterate, i.e. “Who, top guns to reign death and destruction upon nonwhite peoples throughout the world?” It’s _rain_ death and destruction etc. etc. While there’s something to be said for the sentiments expressed in **Libertarian’s** quote, I was under the impression that the Founding Fathers established those rights. And we’re all charged with defending them. ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/13 "2002-11-12T14:33:21Z")
The Founding Fathers were only able to establish those rights after the blood of soldiers was spilled, and those rights continue to stand because Soldiers, airmen, and seamen all serve to protect them. And any history teacher worth his salt should know that. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/14 "2002-11-12T15:06:33Z")
Where are all the folks who rail against spam? I would be pissed too had I received a spam e-mail asking me to assist the war effort and I might express my opinion about it too. Yes, it may come from my work e-mail but I would have been spammed with offensive material at work and respond in kind as an individual. And his stance that the United States is imperialistic is not new or unique; many are offended by this. Who says we have to honor soldiers or military actions? Would it have been OK if he had politely outlined his anti-war stance? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/15 "2002-11-12T15:14:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gigi \* > \*\* Would it have been OK if he had politely outlined his anti-war stance? \*\* You bet it would. It would have been hunky-dory. No one would have batted an eye. But the ‘baby killing collateral damage’ bullshit and calling the boy a coward and a disgrace should get him a one ticket to the unemployement line. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/16 "2002-11-12T15:19:36Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally e-mailed by numbnut history teacher_ > **No war, no air force cowards who bomb countries without AAA, without possibility of retaliation. You are worse than the snipers. You are imperialists who are turning the whole damn world against us. September 11 can be blamed in part for what you and your cohorts have done to the Palestinians, the VC, the Serbs, a retreating army at Basra.** OK, maybe I’ll let Basra slide (even though the Iraqis sure as Hell had AAA) but… When the fuck did the US Air Force bomb the Palestinians? How the Hell are the Viet Cong connected to September 11? For that matter how are the Serbs? Weren’t the Serbs _fighting_ the Muslims? And if the Serbs didn’t have AAA or SAMS, how the fuck did they shoot down an F-117? It’s the Stealth Fighter fer chrissakes! This guy’s a _history_ teacher!? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/17 "2002-11-12T15:19:59Z")
“Would it have been OK if he had politely outlined his anti-war stance?” Yes. That’s the entire point of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/18 "2002-11-12T15:26:44Z")
"Dear xxxxxxxx, Thank you very much for your inquiry about advertising your Academy Assembly. Unfortunately, I am unwilling to participate in assisting this event, due to my opposition to US military intervention in the recent past, and my opposition to any proposed action in Iraq. If you would be interested in discussing my views further, please respond, and I would be happy to expand. Regards, xxxx xxxx" …would have been just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/19 "2002-11-12T15:28:18Z")
I would think as a history professor, he would see the need, scope and benefits of wars. (IOW I agree with Particlewill) It is his opinion though, and the fact that what some professor said pissed you off so much is sad. Many people feel this way, and are just as passionate about those feelings. > [@](#): > > I can rattle off at least a dozen countries where such a criticism of the military would have at the least landed him in jail, at the worst landed him tortured and pushing up daisies. Yeah, well that is what makes this country great, and what our soldiers have fought to hold. We are not like other countries. I get the feeling you would like to see this happen to this guy, which means in my opinion YOU are the dickweed. So what if he looks like a dork. I imagine you probably don’t look much better. > [@](#): > > Does anyone else take that as more-or-less saying, “I still feel the exact way that I said, but I should have kept it to myself?” Yes, because everybody should feel the way you do. People have different opinions, worldviews, and feel passionate about different things. > [@](#): > > What these academia wackos, light-years out on the left and away from reality, never seem to understand is that their ability to have their ridiculous and asinine views is and always has been PRESERVED by the people they are so eager to spit on. And what those ignorant, uneducated riff raff never seem to understand is that is what America is all about. Your pitiful reality is no better than thiers. Your pathetic, “torture and kill those that disagree with you” views are what those people fighting in the wars, that you so much support, are what they are preventing from happening. Jackass. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404/20 "2002-11-12T15:44:58Z")
Does anyone else think **Epimetheus’s** post is the sorriest piece of shit they’ve read for a long time? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Epimetheus \* > **Yeah, well that is what makes this country great, and what our soldiers have fought to hold. We are not like other countries.** Freedom of speech is enshrined in most of the West. Doesn’t make the US unique. > [@](#): > > **I get the feeling you would like to see this happen to this guy, which means in my opinion YOU are the dickweed. So what if he looks like a dork. I imagine you probably don’t look much better.** I hardly think that is what was implied. I think **Milossarian’s** correct in his analysis of the Professor’s reply, though I don’t necessarily agree with **Mil’s** political viewpoint. > [@](#): > > **And what those ignorant, uneducated riff raff :rolleyes: never seem to understand is that is what America is all about.** (My emoticon) > [@](#): > > \*\*Your pitiful reality is no better than thiers. Your pathetic, “torture and kill those that disagree with you” views are what those people fighting in the wars, that you so much support, are what they are preventing from happening. \*\* Who the fuck, apart from you, said that? **Mil** specifically said that the Professor _shouldn’t_ be disciplined for holding these views. > [@](#): > > \*\*Jackass. \*\* There’re only two of them in this thread, and one of them’s the Professor. The other one is hidden behind a large straw man. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-so-incredibly-assholish-i-was-certain-it-was-an-urban-legend-it-wasnt/136404.md?page=2)