# This is the straight truth on War and it's brutal **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914 "2016-01-22T22:24:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tombennett91](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@tombennett91](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tombennett91)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/1 "2016-01-22T22:24:18Z")
If war is a part of human nature will peace ever be possible? Throughout history you hear the politicians and leaders give speech after speech about how great it is when a war has ended but in no time at all another one begins. I’m not so ignorant to believe that every elected official has the ability to avoid a conflict through diplomacy, nor do I oppose war in all circumstances. But when you think along these lines, will there ever be genuine peace? Not the unrealistic peace, I’m referring to the kind of peace where millions of people aren’t killed through war within a decade. With this question in mind and being a Film Editor I decided to create a video titled ‘Our Wars In 2 Minutes’. Covers the major wars since WW1 up until ISIS. It’s violent and brutally honest, be warned. Watch it, don't watch, either way knowing people's opinion on this subject would be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/2 "2016-01-22T22:29:57Z")
Since it’s only a couple of minutes long, why don’t you boil down your point to a paragraph or so, and we’ll discuss it? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/3 "2016-01-22T22:35:43Z")
Well, I applaud tom’s mastery of Adobe Premiere, but aside from a series of stock footage elements smash-cut together and combined with a dramatic score, I don’t see any particular insight or explanation of note. I gather… war is bad? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/4 "2016-01-22T22:39:20Z")
> [@tombennett91](#): > > Not the unrealistic peace, I’m referring to the kind of peace where millions of people aren’t killed through war within a decade. The world as a whole does not have that, but individual countries can have it for long periods. When’s the last time anybody went to war with Brazil? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/5 "2016-01-22T22:46:49Z")
> [@tombennett91](#): > > If war is a part of human nature will peace ever be possible? Throughout history you hear the politicians and leaders give speech after speech about how great it is when a war has ended but in no time at all another one begins. I’m not so ignorant to believe that every elected official has the ability to avoid a conflict through diplomacy, nor do I oppose war in all circumstances. But when you think along these lines, will there ever be genuine peace? Not the unrealistic peace, I’m referring to the kind of peace where millions of people aren’t killed through war within a decade. Well, the trend is a positive one, as far as I know millions of people weren’t killed in war in the [2000s, or 2010s (so far)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll). As far as preventing war goes, there are a couple of promising strategies: making war unprofitable, and changing human biology. War, and group violence in general, is a strategic choice. Presently, it’s not a strategy that pays off for the vast majority of the globe; peace and trade produces better results. The exceptions are areas of civil strife, like Syria, wherein fighting against a corrupt, authoritarian regime can indeed be a rational strategy. So, supporting the spread of democracy and trade is a potent anti-war weapon. As for transhumanism, that’s potentially a viable strategy for the future, if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![tombennett91](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@tombennett91](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tombennett91)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/6 "2016-01-22T22:47:37Z")
A video speaks a thousand words! But I digress. I find it troubling that during my grandparents lifetime there has been World War 2, The Korean War, Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam, The Soviet-Afghan War, Iran - Iraq War, Gulf War, Afghanistan War, Iraq War and now the Islamic State War. This of course does not even scratch the surface, War In Darfur, Rwanda War and so on. I’m wondering if anyone hear generally believes that war will ever truly bring about the peace we’re promised so often? Again, I’m not some naive pacifist, a group like ISIS will not be stopped through words alone but how can anyone believe that land or resources are more important then human life. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/7 "2016-01-22T22:48:31Z")
What opinions are you fishing for? War is _obviously_ bad? Innocent people shouldn’t get shot? What _contrary_ opinions did you think might come forth that you could start a debate about? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/8 "2016-01-22T22:55:05Z")
> [@tombennett91](#): > > A video speaks a thousand words! But I digress. > > I find it troubling that during my grandparents lifetime there has been World War 2, The Korean War, Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam, The Soviet-Afghan War, Iran - Iraq War, Gulf War, Afghanistan War, Iraq War and now the Islamic State War. That goes to my point: those wars had 60-85 million; 1.2 million, 0, 800k-3.8 million, 1-1.6 million, 1 million, 20-35k, 47-61k, 176k-1.1 million, and 250k (total for the Syrian Civil War), respectively. The trend is fewer wars, smaller wars, and less deadly wars. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/9 "2016-01-22T22:58:01Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I gather… war is bad? Hell. War is hell. Or so I’ve heard. Never been in one myself. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/10 "2016-01-22T23:00:55Z")
wow great video anyone who thinks that was “just a bunch of clips smashed together” has probably not ever made such a video… ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/11 "2016-01-22T23:09:34Z")
> [@tombennett91](#): > > A video speaks a thousand words! But I digress. > > I find it troubling that during my grandparents lifetime there has been World War 2, The Korean War, Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam, The Soviet-Afghan War, Iran - Iraq War, Gulf War, Afghanistan War, Iraq War and now the Islamic State War. > > This of course does not even scratch the surface, War In Darfur, Rwanda War and so on. I’m wondering if anyone hear generally believes that war will ever truly bring about the peace we’re promised so often? Again, I’m not some naive pacifist, a group like ISIS will not be stopped through words alone but how can anyone believe that land or resources are more important then human life. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > That goes to my point: those wars had 60-85 million; 1.2 million, 0, 800k-3.8 million, 1-1.6 million, 1 million, 20-35k, 47-61k, 176k-1.1 million, and 250k (total for the Syrian Civil War), respectively. The trend is fewer wars, smaller wars, and less deadly wars. The OP may care to read Steven Pinker’s _[The Better Angel’s of Our Nature](http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Better-Angels-Our-Nature/dp/0141034645)_. You can challenge some of Pinker’s conclusions but the trend is as you say, less violence over time. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/12 "2016-01-22T23:11:56Z")
I watched the video, you failed to show your premise that war is beyond human understanding - I find war understandable (though unpleasant) and have no real idea how you could make that claim. I don’t see anything really new or shocking in the video either, it’s just a variety of war footage and speeches. I honestly don’t get any real message from the film, if you were trying to convey something other than ‘a bunch of bad stuff happens in war’ I don’t know what it wass. If you want to ask if peace is possible, you’ll need to define what you mean by ‘peace’ - we’ve certainly been on a peaceful trend since the end of WW2, with the number of people killed/injured in warfare going down both in absolute and relative terms. Developed countries have highly peaceful among each other - there’s been no significant warfare between the US, EU, Russia, China, or India in quite some time, the casualties come from interventions by those countries into less developed countries, fights between less developed countries, and civil wars. The current trend seems to be that the more the ‘third world’ moves up to ‘developed’ status, the less war we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/13 "2016-01-22T23:12:39Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > wow > > great video > > anyone who thinks that was “just a bunch of clips smashed together” has probably not ever made such a video… Or made several and understands it’s not exactly rocket surgery. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/14 "2016-01-22T23:14:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Or made several and understands it’s not exactly rocket surgery. Ok but, he did a really good job of selecting the correct images/clips and not making them too long. Most ametures don’t understand that a 1/3 of a second is better than 3 seconds… and it takes a lot of work to gather enough content when most of the items are only 1/3 or a second long. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/15 "2016-01-22T23:15:39Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I watched the video, you failed to show your premise that war is beyond human understanding - I find war understandable (though unpleasant) and have no real idea how you could make that claim. I don’t see anything really new or shocking in the video either, it’s just a variety of war footage and speeches. I honestly don’t get any real message from the film, if you were trying to convey something other than ‘a bunch of bad stuff happens in war’ I don’t know what it wass. > > If you want to ask if peace is possible, you’ll need to define what you mean by ‘peace’ - we’ve certainly been on a peaceful trend since the end of WW2, with the number of people killed/injured in warfare going down both in absolute and relative terms. Developed countries have highly peaceful among each other - there’s been no significant warfare between the US, EU, Russia, China, or India in quite some time, the casualties come from interventions by those countries into less developed countries, fights between less developed countries, and civil wars. The current trend seems to be that the more the ‘third world’ moves up to ‘developed’ status, the less war we’ll see. I agree. The point of the video seems to be war is bad not that war is not understandable. But overall you did very good so I’m glad you showed us the video. ---
**Author:** ![tombennett91](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@tombennett91](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tombennett91)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/16 "2016-01-22T23:19:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What opinions are you fishing for? War is _obviously_ bad? Innocent people shouldn’t get shot? > What _contrary_ opinions did you think might come forth that you could start a debate about? As I stated in my original post, if war is part of the human nature can peace ever truly be achieved? There’s a lot to debate there. Through my own experiences many have argued that war is not part of human nature, that it is instead the circumstances and choices we make that lead to war. That is of course true but I would say that to make such choices we as human beings, must have war in our nature. Then the question is why do so many people such as MLK and Ghandi stand against warif it is indeed within our nature? Well I would say they have complete control over such instincts and that we should all take steps to do just that. Resolve our conflicts through diplomacy. But there are those that will never submit themselves to such a process, someone like Hitler will fight to the last child. So how can genuine peace ever truly be achieved? That’s the sort of conversation I was hoping for but with differing opinions to my own and one’s that I’ve already heard. I’ve read through this website for months and unlike most debate forum’s the user’s here actually know what they’re talking about! ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/17 "2016-01-22T23:22:25Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Ok > > but, he did a really good job of selecting the correct images/clips and not making them too long. Most ametures don’t understand that a 1/3 of a second is better than 3 seconds… and it takes a lot of work to gather enough content when most of the items are only 1/3 or a second long. Why do you say he selected “the correct images”? They don’t seem to have made any coherent argument except that “war is bad” - which I’m not hearing a lot of disagreement with. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/18 "2016-01-22T23:24:42Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Why do you say he selected “the correct images”? They don’t seem to have made any coherent argument except that “war is bad” - which I’m not hearing a lot of disagreement with. Because I’ve mad videos like that and I know it is very very hard work. To compile that many images is harder than you think, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/19 "2016-01-22T23:40:03Z")
This interactive [video runs 18 minutes](http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015/06/05/interactive_documentary_the_fallen_of_world_war_ii_animates_devastating.html) and only discusses the devastation of World War II. ---
**Author:** ![tombennett91](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@tombennett91](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tombennett91)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914/20 "2016-01-22T23:46:39Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > The current trend seems to be that the more the ‘third world’ moves up to ‘developed’ status, the less war we’ll see. I appreciate your entire message and by no means do I feel I know all there is to know about war, hence why I raised the question in my first post. I’m here to debate and learn, quotes like the one above are much appreciated in that process. You are right in saying we are on a ‘peaceful trend’ but this is due, in part, to the creation of nuclear weapons. For the first time in human history we have the capability to wipe out the entire human race, if peace is born through that is it really peace at all? This is just question I asked myself after reading your post. I personally believe in the MAD doctrine, as unsettling as it is. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-the-straight-truth-on-war-and-its-brutal/743914.md?page=2)